Been sent a bill by plumber but no work was done-would I still have to pay??!!

Furts

phil24_7 wrote: »

Furts. I value your input on this forum but I must disagree with you here.

From a strictly legal point of view they can make no charges that weren't agreed to.

No cancellation charge was mentioned before, none in the quote and the plumber on the day said there was no charge (all companies are vicariously liable for the employees actions and inactions). There needs to be an offer, consideration and acceptance, once this is done, any changes to this contract would form the basis of a new. The moving of a radiator and additional visible pipework could well mean the contract has been changed but regardless, no cancellation fee was ever part of the original contract.

I agree that most people will realise that a new rad needs pies, but they may also expect these to go into the subfloor like the rest of their rads (if this is how existing rads are fitted). Most people will also likely expect the currents rads to remain unaffected. Moving these may affect the aesthetics of a room or make it obvious if other rads are nearby...hell it may even upset someone's OCD and these cahnges should be highlighted by the professionals. It appears the pros didn't realise this until later causing a material change to the contract.

To be fair, I wouldn't want my existing rads moved (all are at the same height) and I wouldn't want visible pipes, but I would have instructed them to price up the changes to see if it was something I was happy with. If not I would have got the original quote adjusted so that they could sort out the cold spots etc without the new rad.

You are approaching the issue from a legal perspective, my approach is from a good neighbour perspective.

A key point is OP says it was a reputable company and reputable companies employ competent staff. There is no such thing as a free lunch, hence this company incurred time and expense in providing the quote. OP then invited the company into their home which again incurred time and expense. The company gave their professional, and competent judgement on the work and OP said no, I know better than that. The upshot was the company were told to leave the home. OP did not get their work done, and the reputable company was given the run around.

The situation is ridiculous. Nobody knows exactly what was agreed, but I take issue with your view. OCD might be present or any other issues but this is a problem to be addressed by OP. That is why I said the exact requirements, if they had to be specifically detailed, should have been confirmed back by OP.

Competent companies go about their work assuming they are dealing with average consumers. Further, all too frequently such consumers are a challenge to deal with.

Reputable companies would like to be dealing with reputable clients.

Doozergirl

I agree with you, Furts. I try to come from a position of just being a decent person.

I think disruption is a reasonable expectation for anyone having a tradesperson in their house. Visible pipes were discussed and acceptable in the quotation. Tradespeople will either work from the point that that the customer is happy to wall mount pipes or not, and quote accordingly. There are different options available that mean that completely changing one's mind isn't a reasonable expectation on the day.

It's common sense to a reasonable person that a no obligation quote means thst you are under no obligation to accept it and work stops there. It isn't intended for customers to accept a quote and then dump a job when the time for the job has been allocated and the guy is standing in your house.

What was the problem that resulted in the radiators not being balanced either? There's no reason given for that work not being done.

The shame is for small businesses is that if you don't explicitly place value on your time then no one else will. Bullet proof contracts and terms and conditions are the domain of the likes of British Gas who probably would have charged up front anyway for the full job at twice the price.

System

tbh op - I think you owe them money for their time - they quoted for free and were given the nod, then you have cancelled the job after they have started (i.e. turned up to start work) purely because either you haven't understood what they quoted for or what the job entailed.
I would agree that you don't owe them anything if you had seen the quote and not taken it further but the fact is, they have essentially lost out on your job or another job because of the misunderstanding.
As a decent person I wouldn't dispute that I've wasted their time and owe them £60.

Zola.

Tell them to jog on

J_B

Interesting conundrum ....

In our house, Mrs B is the 'artist' and I'm the 'scientist' - I use the terms *very* loosely!

She would ask for a new rad to go in X room but wouldn't have a clue nor care how it was going to happen, as long as it looked right.
I would look at the quote and ask the plumber how he was going to do the work without upsetting the 'artist'.

Maybe, just maybe the OP was an 'artist' and didn't realise the physical aspects of the project.
Maybe the guy who did the quote assumed that OP realised all that was happening.

Too much of a grey area I'm sorry and if it wasn't made clear in the original quote, then sorry Mr Plumber ......

Risteard

The OP owes the money for time-wasting.

coolman_2

Why would you pay if someone told you there was no charge?

phil24_7

Indeed. An operative of the reputable company said there would be no charge. The company have to honour this if they are truly reputable.

And yes Furts, I do approach things from a legal point of view, which is all you are left with when differences of opinion and/or miscommunication bring things to a head.

Take issue with my view all you like. It is up to the professional to convey what they are going to do in a way the customer can understand, though it is up to the customer to make sure they understand things before agreeing.

From what I can gather the pipe layout and rad positioning were not conveyed properly, were not considered fully or assumptions were made and the person doing the quote has perhaps had an off day. This is quite a deviation if it was assumed pipes would go into the sub floor and come back out under the new rad. I certainly wouldn't accept it.

Ultimately we do not know what was in the original quote, we can only assume things (which is the mother of all f**k ups!), but the fact the OP was confused with the new pipe and rad layout shows that either the company made a mistake with the original quote, the workers misunderstood things, or the OP was not properly informed of what was going to happen at the quote stage.

As I mentioned, I would have got the quote adjusted and still had the guys do the other works so that their time wasn't wasted. I would also have got them to quote me to do the work as I wanted if it was possible, but OP was under no obligation to do that as the quote was inclusive of the new rad.

phil24_7

Incidentally, I would love the OP to come back with the specifics of the original quote and exactly what was said to them and what they believed would be happening so that we can all be a bit better informed. It may alter my view or indeed Furts/Doozergirl if we can understand what was originally quoted and agreed to.

phil24_7

I also fail to see why a Rad would need to be raised 6 inches to feed the next pipe, can you enlighten me as to why they would have needed to have done this?