Problems with Megaman LEDs and apparent ignoring of issue

Sausage11

Thanks all.

It is frustrating that Megaman were selling these lamps at absolute premium prices. If I had paid a few pounds each I would have accepted my mistakenly trying to cut corners and would have simply replaced them with higher quality lamps.

It is especially annoying that their customer service is so dreadful and they appear to be deliberately spinning out this issue so that I will give up and go away. It shows a total lack of respect for their end customers.

On Monday I will contact E+E and complain to them about these lamps. In terms of the method of complaint, would people recommend that I send a recorded delivery letter?

brightontraveller

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

No one has to go up against a corporation and the manufacturer doesn't have to admit liability.
The OP's consumer rights are against the retailer who sold them the lamps and not the manufacturer.
As to "A few hundred pounds" for a report.
All it may need is a letter from an experienced lighting engineer stating that in his opinion the lamps have failed far too early and I wouldn't expect this to cost a great deal.
If Megaman stated that the lamps would last an average of 50,000 hours and they haven't even go to 10% of this, I can't see that the retailer would be able to dispute that they failed prematurely especially as they appear to already know about the poor reliability and have stopped selling them because of this.

Your getting confused the manufacture offers the warranty (there are certain time limitations involved here ) So very unlikely retailer / Electrical wholesaler?. For this reason they wouldn't need too dispute it or get involved in any way if they choose not too ? 99.9% of the time warranty and obligations therefore would be with manufacture,

Consumer rights this is whole different game weeks, less than 6mths but whole new ball game 2 years, I.m afaid talking poppy !!!!, You start getting into onus on you to prove the goods are indeed faulty it is not installation method ( which they have already stated /implied )or indeed exceeded the time etc

[FONT=&quot]You believe lighting engineer report would surfice? I doubt it and again phone one up see what they would charge ( there not the same as an electrician or indeed expert or should it be needed an expert witness [/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]you'd need to get a report from an expert [/FONT] you and the [FONT=&quot]other parti[FONT=&quot]es [/FONT][/FONT] both agree has the necessary expertise[FONT=&quot] otherwise cost will rise even more .

[/FONT] By all means try the electrical wholesalers and if there dumb or don’t want the hassle, bad reputation they may well change, replace, offer a discount, repair etc , But putting in writing its bad poor/ design etc when you have absolutely no proof whatsoever and start making assumption that they know there crap you could well find they completely close /stop any negotiations, thus avoiding opening themselves up or admitting any liability at all .

The OP must be mad if they think megaman are going to roll over and except [FONT=&quot]end user[FONT=&quot]s opinion [FONT=&quot]To [/FONT]even think of going to court without [FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]appropriate[/FONT] report / expert witness etc [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]there on [/FONT]hiding to nothing, [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]W[/FONT]e can all thank, pat on the [FONT=&quot]back to the cows come home but [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]W[/FONT]e are talking less than 7 lamps even if all 60 lamps [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Reality check ?[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]

shaun_from_Africa

brightontraveller wrote: »

Your getting confused the manufacture offers the warranty (there are certain time limitations involved here ) So very unlikely retailer / Electrical wholesaler?.

I'm not confused in the slightest, hence the reason why my earlier post referred to the OP's consumer rights and not their rights under the warranty and saying that these rights were against the seller of the lamps.
As your somewhat bizarre comment about the retailer possibly choosing not to get involved.
If someone decides to take legal action using their SOGA rights, the retailer can't simply decide not to get involved.
The small claims process in the county court or moneyclaim online is a very simple process that works on the balance of probability and only costs a modest sum (about £35 to begin the claim and this money can be added to that claimed).

The evidence required is nowhere near as strict as that for a criminal court which is why a letter from a qualified lighting engineer stating that the lamps failed well before they had reached even a fraction of the average estimated life and maybe a couple of online reviews (some good ones on Amazon) may well be good enough.

Is it worth attempting legal action?
The only person who can decide that is the OP themselves and all my posts are for it to give the OP some advice should they wish to proceed.

brightontraveller

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

I'm not confused in the slightest, hence the reason why my earlier post referred to the OP's consumer rights and not their rights under the warranty and saying that these rights were against the seller of the lamps.
As your somewhat bizarre comment about the retailer possibly choosing not to get involved.
If someone decides to take legal action using their SOGA rights, the retailer can't simply decide not to get involved.
The small claims process in the county court or moneyclaim online is a very simple process that works on the balance of probability and only costs a modest sum (about £35 to begin the claim and this money can be added to that claimed).

The evidence required is nowhere near as strict as that for a criminal court which is why a letter from a qualified lighting engineer stating that the lamps failed well before they had reached even a fraction of the average estimated life and maybe a couple of online reviews (some good ones on Amazon) may well be good enough.

Is it worth attempting legal action?
The only person who can decide that is the OP themselves and all my posts are for it to give the OP some advice should they wish to proceed.

If not confused is it you don't know the difference between wholesalers/ retailers ? "Retailer" it would be different and where it gets tricky as Wholesalers are different to high street retailer etc and they are "Wholesalers" , SOGA or as it is now " The Consumer Rights Act 2015" learn the difference between retailer and wholesalers
You have views which are incorrect ? I have mine that consumer is wasting there time for 7 lamps fitted into as manufacture states incompatible fittings, being 2 years old and from wholesalers not retailer .

[FONT=&quot]To be honest this is a common problem when a non professional (consumer) decides they want to not only spec the goods but supply them also to save them a few pounds.....[FONT=&quot]

Somethings odd that they say they spoke to [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]"lighting designer"and a "respected local [FONT=&quot]electrician" but not the electrician that installed lights to verify if there is [FONT=&quot]a fault on the circuits etc or ask any electrician to te[FONT=&quot]st circuits but [FONT=&quot]automatically[/FONT] its supplier/ manufactures fault[FONT=&quot], You also [FONT=&quot]don't[/FONT] think testing circuits/installation or fitting etc is [FONT=&quot]relevant[/FONT] so [FONT=&quot]is there [FONT=&quot]really[/FONT] any[FONT=&quot] point in trying to help either of you ?[/FONT][/FONT] [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT]

Sausage11

Shaun / Brighton Traveller,

I don't know enough about these things to know which of you is correct on various issues but I do appreciate your both trying to help.

To answer a few issues raised by BT:

The electrician that handled the first and second fix worked with the build team that did the house. I had his mobile and tried to call but the number no longer (2 years later) works. I spoke to my structural engineer (who project managed the build) and with his advice then contacted the local electrician and asked if he would come and test the circuits to establish whether there might be an issue with the installation as opposed to the lamps. I explained that lamps had gone on 4 different circuits and that all circuits had only 5-7 lamps. He said he could quite happily come and take my money for a site visit and testing but that he was convinced the problem lay with the lamps themselves and that I should get the entire batch replaced. He also spoke of his own, very negative, experience with Megaman 7w GU10s.

My lighting designer (who designed the circuits and recommended the components) suggested a faulty batch. The supplier, E+E (who were also involved in meetings to decide components), said they no longer sold these lamps due to the problems with them and that I was lucky to get 2,500 of the 5,000 rated hours out of them.

So neither the electrician, the lighting designer nor E+E suggested anything other than that the lamps were the blame. I was quite open to spending money on testing to establish what the issue was.

When I spoke with Stuart Elgin he wondered aloud over the phone that the fittings may not be compatible. I have since received an email from the fittings company confirming that they are compatible. Stuart Elgin did not suggest the need for the circuits to be tested.

On Amazon out of 12 reviews for these lamps (13 now I've added my own!) 2 give 1 star and say they all failed within a short period of time. It's a small sample size but suggests 16% of customers find the lamps totally unacceptable.

I don't know whether E+E is considered a wholesaler or a retailer or whether a difference exists. If they sell to the public I would hope I would be protected as if I walked into a high street store and bought them there. But obviously, that's just a dumb consumer hoping that a level of protection exists. (And I am a dumb consumer - I know that! Hence my asking questions like this on these boards!).

But as said above. I do appreciate you both trying to help. I hope the above clarifies some of the issues.

shaun_from_Africa

brightontraveller wrote: »

If not confused is it you don't know the difference between wholesalers/ retailers ? "Retailer" it would be different and where it gets tricky as Wholesalers are different to high street retailer etc and they are "Wholesalers" , SOGA or as it is now " The Consumer Rights Act 2015" learn the difference between retailer and wholesalers

Point one.
If a person is making a purchase and acting as a consumer, it makes no difference as to whether they make that purchase from a shop, retailer, or wholesaler. If that outlet sells to consumers then it is still a B2C purchase.

Point two.
The reason I used the SOGA and not the Consumer rights act is because it is the SOGA that was in force when the OP made their purchases.
The CRA only applies to contracts formed after October 2015 and as it is not retroactive, this piece of legislation is totally irrelevant.

George_Michael

brightontraveller wrote: »

learn the difference between retailer and wholesalers

Seeing as neither the Consumer rights act or the Sale of goods act use these terms, what is the point in learning the difference?
As far as the law is concerned, there are only 2 relevant parties in a sales contract and they are either businesses/traders and consumers.

brightontraveller wrote: »

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]so [FONT=&quot]is there [FONT=&quot]really[/FONT] any[FONT=&quot] point in trying to help either of you ?[/FONT][/FONT] [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT] [/FONT][/FONT]

As you don't know which legislation applies in this case nor do you appear to know when consumer rights actually apply, you are probably correct. There is not really any point in your trying to help anyone.

brightontraveller

George_Michael wrote: »

Seeing as neither the Consumer rights act or the Sale of goods act use these terms, what is the point in learning the difference?
As far as the law is concerned, there are only 2 relevant parties in a sales contract and they are either businesses/traders and consumers.


As you don't know which legislation applies in this case nor do you appear to know when consumer rights actually apply, you are probably correct. There is not really any point in your trying to help anyone.

The reply was to another whom quotes "retailer " and reply in context of that comment, And where did I say that they use these terms please post, Also selective editing a response makes the answer irrelevant, If you don't believe there is a difference to quote other poster B2b and B2C then that's your prerogative. not to mention sale types through electricians account etc.

If a fault appears in which lamps do not work you should check the supply , fitting etc not automatically assume its the lamp ( which it could be)There is no proof no mention at all of testing lamps on known supply, testing circuits, installation method or of location suitability, absolutely nothing at all yet some think these are irrelevant :rotfl:

brightontraveller

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

Point one.
If a person is making a purchase and acting as a consumer, it makes no difference as to whether they make that purchase from a shop, retailer, or wholesaler. If that outlet sells to consumers then it is still a B2C purchase.

Point two.
The reason I used the SOGA and not the Consumer rights act is because it is the SOGA that was in force when the OP made their purchases.
The CRA only applies to contracts formed after October 2015 and as it is not retroactive, this piece of legislation is totally irrelevant.

Point one, Yes" if "but you can also assume they are not as they are using a wholesaler you correct me without asking the facts from OP knowing how it was purchased they paid directly or paid electrician whom paid on account they bought on electricians account , there own account etc or what the wholesalers terms are e.g business only only etc

Point two SOGA again you do not know what they are you can guess thats all.

Your advice to pursue is strange as I don't believe there are sufficient facts from OP plenty of important info missing ? Add cost of pursuit against replacement , Lack of sufficient information from OP makes it a pointless exercise..

I understand OP frustration at purchase not lasting as long as they had been advised also with manufactures statement that they where not designed for fitting I question the Lighting designers choice maybe ask those that they paid to advise them to compensate ( whom they may get a better response from they did have manufactures original statement which would be classified sufficient as expert ? Although as yet no confirmation from lamp manufacture. With all these experts not one said test the lamps on known supply very strange ?

Puzzling me is that light manufacture say they are compatible is unusual aside not wishing wish to exclude new /existing customers, they don't have control over lamp manufacture specs etc or open themselves up to any liability

Get on with life 7 lamps at prices today would be £10 - 20 pounds and as they have 60 such light its unlikely there in a bedsit and cannot afford this cost ?

Risteard

Sausage11 wrote: »

On Amazon out of 12 reviews for these lamps (13 now I've added my own!) 2 give 1 star and say they all failed within a short period of time. It's a small sample size but suggests 16% of customers find the lamps totally unacceptable.

It really doesn't suggest anything of the sort.

Who is statistically more likely to leave a review: someone who is happy with the lamps or someone who is less than happy with the lamps? And therefore the percentages will be hugely distorted.