Parking fine for parking on footway

ubiquitous

Long story short, I live on a street that is entirely a private housing estate of flats in the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames. The street runs the length of the estate and there are parking bays along the street. Because of the arrangement of buildings, every so often the street 'expands' on one side so that there is space for 2-3 cars to park perpendicular to the road rather than parallel with it as the other spaces are, and there is garage access on the left of it.

s13.postimg.org/9dycoxzcn/Capture.jpg
I tried to attach a google street view or a photo directly but as a new poster it's not letting me, but if you add https:// to the above address, you can see the view of the parking pays.

Only two cars are parked there in the photo, but there is space for 3 and usually 3 cars are parked there as parking is at a premium most of the time. On the day I received the fine, my car was parked in the left side space. The front wheels were slightly up on the ramp. This was so that any car that might want access to the garage would have the maximum amount of space to get in - in other words, courtesy!

Anyway the other day, I received a PCN for "622 - parked with one or more wheels on or over footpath or any part of a road other than a carriageway (partly on a footway)" for having the front wheels slightly in front of the kerb, or where the kerb would be if there wasn't a ramp built up from the road. This ramp is not clearly defined as a footpath in any sense (especially since just a few metres away, it hits a hard kerb so you couldn't argue that it's specifically built to allow pushchairs and wheelchairs uninterrupted access). In any case, there is no signage and and cars are ALWAYS parked there. It's never been used exclusively as a footpath.

What I am upset by, and what I think is the fundamental mistake they have made, is that my wheels were slightly on the private property of the estate, so it is not a footpath IMO. I submitted an informal appeal and got a response 24 hours later that they rejected the informal appeal. Their response/argument was:

----
The Civil Enforcement Officer issued the PCN detailed above as the vehicle was parked with
wheels on the footway at a location where there is no exemption.
This is a London-wide contravention except where there are specially marked exemptions,
identified with white lines up on to the footway and signs indicating that footway parking is
permitted.
It states in the Highway Code, section 244 "You must not park partially or wholly on the
pavement in London….” Parking on the pavement can obstruct and seriously inconvenience
pedestrians, people in wheelchairs, the visually impaired and people with prams or
pushchairs."
If there is no exemption and parking a vehicle wholly on the carriageway would cause an
obstruction an alternative legal parking location must be found.
Further to this, a highway is a way over which members of the public have the right to pass
and re-pass without hindrance and every piece of land which is subject to such public right of
passage is a highway. This includes the carriageway, footway, grass verges, dropped kerbs
and all other assorted areas of land whether paved, tarmac, grass, mud or other type of
surface. The carriageway is defined as that part of the highway over which the public has a
vehicular right of way.
The area where the vehicle was parked has no fence, chain or barrier preventing public right
of way and is therefore part of the highway.
----

My question is... are they right? Can they really enforce parking issues on private property? By their extremely wide definition, you could consider almost anything a 'pavement' or 'footway'. Also, is a fence or barrier really the only thing that can prevent private property from becoming a public right of way? It seems ridiculous that they are arguing this IMO, but I just don't know enough about the law to be sure how to respond. My thought though, is that if they really apply this logic, then wouldn't parking in your own driveway constitute an obstruction to the public's right of way to your front door? Surely this is a parking issue for the estate, not the local council?

My gut feeling is that even if they are technically right and this could be considered an obstruction of a public right of way, it is a very petty fine and might be shot down in an appeals court (de minimis?). So they have rejected my informal appeal, but I understand that I still have the option of a formal appeal and an independent adjudicator. The problem is, I am literally just days away from leaving the UK and relocating to Australia. On the one hand, good luck to them trying to chase me down in Australia for the fine, but on the other hand I don't want a stupid fine like this to affect my credit rating if I ever return to the UK. I understand that I could appeal to the adjudicator online so I wouldn't have to appear in person, but I suspect that it will be difficult if any correspondence that the council sends me is sent to my UK address that I will no longer live in. Any advice about how to handle this would be much appreciated.

Quentin

Pepipoo is the best place for advice on "proper" council tickets

ubiquitous

Thanks, I hadn't heard of it but I'll submit this question there as well. In the mean time, still open to advice from anyone here!

Umkomaas

Long story short,

Thank goodness we didn't get the long version! :rotfl:

Here's your link to the right sub-forum on PePiPoo. You'll need an email address to register, but a Hotmail on won't work. Read through some recent cases there to see how the regulars want your case presented (scans of all document needed).

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=SF&s=&f=30

ubiquitous

Sorry Hard to explain the nuances of this issue without going into a bit of detail. It's (probably) a question of obscure laws, definitions, grey areas and jurisdictions... I mean, what is the definition of a footway/highway? Does it apply on private property? Does the council have jurisdiction over parking issues on private property? Etc. Anyway, I've posted the same question in there. We'll see. I have one answer that suggests that maybe the council can legitimately issue the PCN but they asked for more information.

Tilt

First of all you need to understand that the contravention is "parked with one or more wheels on or over footpath or any part of a road other than a carriageway" meaning that you don't have to be necessarily parked on a footpath.

Looking at the image, I'm unable to see the adjacent entrance enough to tell whether you are allowing sufficient space to access that entrance. It could be the case that people have complained about cars being parked there, who knows?

I think you can appeal formally again challenging their reasons for rejection and then you have the option of taking to PATAS (where if you loose you will be expected to pay the full PCN amount).

Ultimately there is no court process involved so as you are relocating to Australia, I would say your options are very limited other than to pay it. However, if you don't pay/appeal successfully, a charge certificate will be issued to recover the amount outstanding (or goods to the value) from the address that the NTO was served to.

Tilt

ubiquitous wrote: »

Sorry Hard to explain the nuances of this issue without going into a bit of detail. It's (probably) a question of obscure laws, definitions, grey areas and jurisdictions... I mean, what is the definition of a footway/highway? Does it apply on private property? Does the council have jurisdiction over parking issues on private property? Etc. Anyway, I've posted the same question in there. We'll see. I have one answer that suggests that maybe the council can legitimately issue the PCN but they asked for more information.

No. But is the road adopted or maintained at public expense (i.e. a public highway)?

Johno100

That's London for you, where revenue generation has overridden any element of common sense.

ubiquitous

Hi Tilt,

I've posted the same thing at Pepipoo and I was able to post pictures of the PCN and the photos they took.

forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=110261

Hopefully that link will work without the full url.

What doesn't seem to be specified in the quote you provided to me is whether that also applies to private property. I mean, if you really took "any part of a road other than a carriageway" literally, it would also apply to a private driveway. So you could be issued a PCN for parking in your own private driveway! After all, it's a part of a road other than a carriageway, isn't it? That phrase is so vague that anything vaguely road or footpath-like could be fair game for a PCN and that's obviously not fair. So my thought is that there has to be some common sense applied to it.

ubiquitous

Sorry, just saw your second reply.

No. But is the road adopted or maintained at public expense (i.e. a public highway)?

.

The ROAD is, but the part that they are giving me a PCN for (the 'footpath' on private property) is definitely not maintained at public expense. It's private property of the estate and maintained by them (certainly to the best of my knowledge anyway).

The two photos that the council took when issuing the PCN are here:
s17.postimg.org/3lmdmd9a7/15239196_10155602677222516_168762416_n.jpg
s11.postimg.org/48vuptcnn/15310334_10155602677182516_281023555_n.jpg

You'll have to copy and paste into a new browser window to see them I think.

ubiquitous

Also, one of my neighbours is actually a local Richmond borough councillor (shame he doesn't really have any sway on parking fines) and he's given me a PDF of GIS data of our street that proves that I was parked with my front wheels on private property (it shows the delineation between the public highway and the private estate). The question simply remains (as I see it) whether they can fine me for parking with my wheels partly on private property if they decide that it was a private footpath I was on. If indeed they can decide that anything is a public right of way even if its on private property, then they could fine you for parking almost anywhere on private property. That's why I find it so ridiculous...

Perhaps it does exist somewhere in legislation but I can't find a clear definition of what a public right of way or footpath/footway is as it applies to this PCN.