MSE News: GB Energy goes bust, 160,000 customers affected

Mr_K

Stratus wrote: »

I received the same email claiming the December DD had not been taken but it is shown as being credited to my GB Energy / Cooperative Energy December statement and went out of by bank a few days before.

Yes I got that mail. It does sound legit as I cancelled my DD in December when GB folded (now reinstated it) so no payment was made that month. Won't be making any extra payment anyway as i'm in credit.

tbf they do seem to be getting their act together as they have now replied to query I sent back in Oct. to GB and had given hope of response.

pat100

Buy a DIY energy-company kit.
Generate income by selling energy unsubstainably cheaply.
Use the income to over-pay my related company for services.
Go bust.
Hand the energy company over to OFGEM to sort out.
Gosh, my related company looks healthy ...

I'm looking for partners...

I got the idea from a Private Eye article:

"GBE's last published accounts

report two egregious “related-party
transactions”: purchases totalllng
£2.5m from Myoffers Limited and
CGF Marketing Services Limited.

One Brett Trevalyan is a director of both companies,
and both are part-owned by a
third firm, Wallingford Ltd. By
coincidence, Wallingford also owns a quarter
of the shares in GBE; and Brett Trevalyan is a
director of GB Energy, too.

In an unguarded moment the company
answered an email enquiry on the nature of
the transactions, and stated that payments to
Trevalyan’s companies were for “developing
and running the websites” - a surprising
amount for a small company to pay for services
that are generally available off-the-peg for a
fraction of the cost.

Moreover, £2.5m is eight times as much
as GBE's total wage bill, and getting on fo r
whatit paid to the gas and electricity grids
for distribution to its customers. Still, at least
someone seems to have done well out of the
short-lived GB Energy saga.

GBE was an off-the-shelf company bought
from a company formation agency that spawned
at least seven of the 19 new energy suppliers."

Pet_Troll

I was with GB energy and they were taking the wrong amount in Direct Debit payments (I only noticed when I looked closely at my account following them going bust), I thought I would be covered under the DD guarantee but my bank (Halifax) are saying that the DD guarantee does not apply to companies that have been liquidated.

Can anyone confirm if this is the case and if not provide me with some info to back up my claim?

Thanks

footyguy

Pet_Troll wrote: »

I was with GB energy and they were taking the wrong amount in Direct Debit payments (I only noticed when I looked closely at my account following them going bust), I thought I would be covered under the DD guarantee but my bank (Halifax) are saying that the DD guarantee does not apply to companies that have been liquidated.

Can anyone confirm if this is the case and if not provide me with some info to back up my claim?

Thanks

I know of no such rule. Make a formal complaint to your bank and get them to explain exactly where that rule is stated.
Post details here if they come up with anything

Refer them to the Direct Debit Guarantee wording you were provided with.

System

Pet_Troll wrote: »

I was with GB energy and they were taking the wrong amount in Direct Debit payments (I only noticed when I looked closely at my account following them going bust), I thought I would be covered under the DD guarantee but my bank (Halifax) are saying that the DD guarantee does not apply to companies that have been liquidated.

Can anyone confirm if this is the case and if not provide me with some info to back up my claim?

Thanks

Ofgem has said that all credit balances will be honoured so I am not sure why you are trying to invoke the DD indemnity guarantee. If you have left GB, then I know from personal experience that you will get any credit back. If your supply in now with the Coop (on your old GB tariff terms), then all credits will show on your account to be used against future billing.

What exactly are you claiming?

uptdale

I was with GB energy and they were taking the wrong amount in Direct Debit payments (I only noticed when I looked closely at my account following them going bust), I thought I would be covered under the DD guarantee but my bank (Halifax) are saying that the DD guarantee does not apply to companies that have been liquidated.

There is nothing in the DD guarantee to prevent it operating if the company is insolvent. But the DD guarantee only applies if DD payments did not comply with the terms of the DD Instruction you gave to GB, or if there was a change in the amount to be paid or the payment date, and you were not notified of the change in advance. You have to distinguish between non-compliant payments and what happens after you have paid, such as the company becoming insolvent. The DD guarantee is not like the Section 75 protection for a credit card payment, which is much wider.

If you think that payments did not comply with the DD instruction, you will need to get a copy of the DD instruction. Even though you gave the authority to GB, GB does not seem to have the facility to give you a copy, and the advice from BACS (on the Direct Debit website), is that you must ask your bank (the Halifax) for a copy.

If there was no error in the DD payments, then your best course is, as others have said, to contact the people at GB Energy Supply and ask for repayment (I put it that way, because there is still no clarity as to exactly which company they are working for now, but the latest email I had seems to indicate that it is Midcounties Co-operative Ltd rather than Co-operative Energy Ltd). Technically, you may have a claim against GB Energy Supply Ltd (the company now in administration), but I guess your chances of recovering anything from the administrator (or a liquidator, if and when one is appointed), are pretty low.

footyguy

uptdale wrote: »

There is nothing in the DD guarantee to prevent it operating if the company is insolvent. But the DD guarantee only applies if DD payments did not comply with the terms of the DD Instruction you gave to GB, or if there was a change in the amount to be paid or the payment date, and you were not notified of the change in advance. You have to distinguish between non-compliant payments and what happens after you have paid, such as the company becoming insolvent. The DD guarantee is not like the Section 75 protection for a credit card payment, which is much wider.

If you think that payments did not comply with the DD instruction, you will need to get a copy of the DD instruction. Even though you gave the authority to GB, GB does not seem to have the facility to give you a copy, and the advice from BACS (on the Direct Debit website), is that you must ask your bank (the Halifax) for a copy.

If there was no error in the DD payments, then your best course is, as others have said, to contact the people at GB Energy Supply and ask for repayment (I put it that way, because there is still no clarity as to exactly which company they are working for now, but the latest email I had seems to indicate that it is Midcounties Co-operative Ltd rather than Co-operative Energy Ltd). Technically, you may have a claim against GB Energy Supply Ltd (the company now in administration), but I guess your chances of recovering anything from the administrator (or a liquidator, if and when one is appointed), are pretty low.

In regards to the text I have highlighted, that is not strictly correct.

Paying banks are required to accept the word of the payer concerning an error made by the Service Provider due to their obligaions under the DD Guarantee.

The paying bank are required to make an immediate refund of any amount claimed to have been incorrectly collected under the terms of the scheme.
e.g. the amount collected varied from amount stated in the advance notice (or no advance notice was given)*.

This is in line with the wording of the Direct Debit Guarantee

If an error is made in the payment of your Direct Debit, by the organisation or your bank or building society, you are entitled to a full and immediate refund of the amount paid from your bank or building society

it goes onto say,

If you receive a refund you are not entitled to, you must pay it back when the organisation asks you to

i.e. It is for the organisation (or sometimes the bank) to prove the claim was wrong, not for the payer to prove it was right.


* the full reasons why a payer may make a claim are as specified in the DD guarantee wording

If there are any changes to the amount, date or frequency of your Direct Debit the organisation will notify you (normally 10 working days) in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed. If you request the organisation to collect a payment, confirmation of the amount and date will be given to you at the time of the request

You are correct in that the DD Guarantee covers Direct Debit payments. It cannot be used to address contractual disputes between the payer and the service provider.​

footyguy

footyguy wrote: »

I know of no such rule. Make a formal complaint to your bank and get them to explain exactly where that rule is stated.
Post details here if they come up with anything

Refer them to the Direct Debit Guarantee wording you were provided with.

Further to my post, I can now confirm that the indemnity provided by all organisations that operate the DD scheme is not time limited.
That is to say it is valid for the entire period the organisation is part of the scheme, and is valid for any DD collection made during that valid period, even for claims made after the organisation has withdrawn from the scheme (e.g. voluntarily or otherwise) providing the collection being claimed occured during the valid period.
(if a collection was made outside the valid period, then the paying bank would be responsible for the claim, so the payer is covered in any event)

Pet Troll - please continue to foillow my previous advice and make a formal complaint to your bank. If and when necessary (I don't think it will be) and appropriate, ask the financial ombudsman to assist you, who will find in your favour.

System

footyguy wrote: »

Further to my post, I can now confirm that the indemnity provided by all organisations that operate the DD scheme is not time limited.
That is to say it is valid for the entire period the organisation is part of the scheme, and is valid for any DD collection made during that valid period, even for claims made after the organisation has withdrawn from the scheme (e.g. voluntarily or otherwise) providing the collection being claimed occured during the valid period.
(if a collection was made outside the valid period, then the paying bank would be responsible for the claim, so the payer is covered in any event)

Pet Troll - please continue to foillow my previous advice and make a formal complaint to your bank. If and when necessary (I don't think it will be) and appropriate, ask the financial ombudsman to assist you, who will find in your favour.

Why? All GBEnergy credit balances are protected by Ofgem. I left GBEnergy before the crash; a Final Bill was raised when they received closing meter readings and I got nearly £70 refunded within 3 days. Why the great rush to complain and go to an Ombudsman? FWiW, during my time with GBEnergy they made one change to my DD payment and notified me of the new amount in accordance with DD procedures.

PS If the poster didn't notice the incorrect DD payments being taken from her account until GBEnergy went bust then it is more than reasonable to conclude that she may not have taken note of the e-mail changing the amount.

uptdale

In regards to the text I have highlighted, that is not strictly correct.

Paying banks are required to accept the word of the payer concerning an error made by the Service Provider due to their obligaions under the DD Guarantee.

The paying bank are required to make an immediate refund of any amount claimed to have been incorrectly collected under the terms of the scheme.
e.g. the amount collected varied from amount stated in the advance notice (or no advance notice was given)*.

This is in line with the wording of the Direct Debit Guarantee

This is what BACS says on the Direct Debit website:

Contact your bank and ask to see a copy of the Direct Debit Instruction, which your bank should have access to within 7 working days. Whilst the copy is being obtained you are entitled to an immediate refund of the amount debited from your bank under the Direct Debit Guarantee.Should you confirm that the Direct Debit Instruction is bona fide your bank will re-debit your account:
If the Direct Debit Instruction cannot be provided or, following production you still do not recognise the organisation, your bank will cancel the Direct Debit Instruction and reclaim the refunded amount from the organisation.

That makes sense, because you may need a copy of the DD Instruction to know whether an error has been made and therefore whether the DD Guarantee applies. The guarantee applies "If an error is made in the payment of your Direct Debit" - which includes, but is not limited to, errors in the amount or date of payment.