Log of Verbal Incidents

Undervalued

jondav wrote: »

Taken from the CAB website (the link wouldn't work):
"Secret monitoring

Some employers monitor their workers without informing them that this is happening, for example, by use of hidden cameras or audio devices. This is very rarely legal. Guidance under data protection law says that secret monitoring should not be allowed in private areas at work, such as staff toilets, unless there is serious crime involved, such as drug dealing."

It appears that context does not matter in the case of SECRET recording, which was the question.


So to the OP - I'm not sure of the answer to your question, but I would be very careful how you go about "obtaining evidence" if you plan to take this any further

No, that is quite different.

Also, you are not understanding the difference between illegal (a criminal act) and unlawful (where there would only be a civil remedy in the form of damages).

As stated early on in this thread, it is not illegal to covertly record a conversation you are party to. Depending on what you do with the recording the person you have covertly recorded may have a civil claim against you for damages.

To covertly recored a conversation you are not party to (i.e. bugging) would generally be a criminal offence. There are certain limited exceptions.

Undervalued

jondav wrote: »

I do understand the difference, but that wasn't the question. I asked if it was allowed in a place of employment, not whether it was illegal or unlawful.

Again, I have said twice now that I am referring to SECRET recording - so the question of whether or not someone is party to the conversation is a non-question. If they are being secretly recorded, then they are obviously not party to it are they?

Either way, the CAB advice is pretty clear so people's opinions / context don't really come into it.

No, you are totally missing the point particularly about "party to".

If you and I are in a private room having a conversation, and I am secretly recording it, I am committing no crime. If I publish that recording (or a transcript of it) you may, depending on the circumstances, have a civil claim against me. Whether it is "allowed" in an employment context depends on the employer but most would regard it as misconduct.

If you and somebody else are having a conversation in a private room and I have hidden a recorder but am not present then I would generally be committing a crime.

Many employers (and most larger shops) get round this by having clear warning signs on the door informing those entering that audio and video recordings are being made. By entering you consent to being recorded.

sangie595

jondav wrote: »

To be fair, I think it is you that is missing my point. I understand what 'party to' means, but thanks anyway for the explanation. However, whether or not someone is party to the conversation is not in question here (I say again).
I have highlighted in your answer above exactly the point that I was trying to get to - which it seems when all comes to all, we do agree That's all I was asking.
So:
Person A and person B are having a private conversation in a private room.
Person C whom is neither present, nor involved, has planted a recording device in said room.
Person C goes back later to collect said recording and do (who knows what) with it.
Person C is not allowed to do this, right?

Under most circumstances, yes, you are correct. But not all. That is the meaning of the word "rarely" in the CAB advice you quote. There is a famous tribunal / EAT ruling where such a covert recording WAS accepted as lawful evidence due to it being ruled in the public interest that the contents be disclosed. It isn't common this sort of thing happens, but it does.

Undervalued

jondav wrote: »

So:
Person A and person B are having a private conversation in a private room.
Person C whom is neither present, nor involved, has planted a recording device in said room.
Person C goes back later to collect said recording and do (who knows what) with it.
Person C is not allowed to do this, right?

Correct.

Person C may well be committing a criminal offence and could theoretically be prosecuted, fined or even sent to prison! Possible defences could be obtaining evidence of a crime or acting in the public interest.