Log of Verbal Incidents

dannyrst

Hi all,

I just wondered, if a manager says something to a member of staff in private but then denies ever having said it, what would be the best way of obtaining evidence for the next time it happens?

Cheers

Guest101

dannyrst wrote: »

Hi all,

I just wondered, if a manager says something to a member of staff in private but then denies ever having said it, what would be the best way of obtaining evidence for the next time it happens?

Cheers

Depends on the context and nature of the incident.


give more detail

Undervalued

dannyrst wrote: »

Hi all,

I just wondered, if a manager says something to a member of staff in private but then denies ever having said it, what would be the best way of obtaining evidence for the next time it happens?

Cheers

If it is in private then there isn't a way apart from covertly recording the conversation.

It is not illegal (i.e. not a criminal offence) to covertly record a conversation you are party to. However the employer may well regard it a misconduct so be very careful not to get caught! Bugging (i.e. recording when you are not present) could be a criminal offence so don't do that!

Depending on what is recorded and what happens next you may be allowed to present a transcript as evidence if the matter gets to an employment tribunal. I stress may as it would be up to the judge to rule on admissibility of such a recording depending on the circumstances of the case.

dannyrst

Guest101 wrote: »

Depends on the context and nature of the incident.


give more detail

Without wanting to share too much detail:

The employee has been diagnosed with mental health issues. The manager has, on several occasions, used this to single out the employee. When the manager is questioned on this infront of other staff, the manager denies ever saying anything.

This has caused the employee's health to deteriorate to the point of being signed off work.

I'm looking at how those initial remarks could be logged/recorded to allow future issues to be raised with evidence, as when it was initially raised, the manager denied it and everyone sided with him.

sangie595

Undervalued wrote: »

If it is in private then there isn't a way apart from covertly recording the conversation.

It is not illegal (i.e. not a criminal offence) to covertly record a conversation you are party to. However the employer may well regard it a misconduct so be very careful not to get caught! Bugging (i.e. recording when you are not present) could be a criminal offence so don't do that!

Depending on what is recorded and what happens next you may be allowed to present a transcript as evidence if the matter gets to an employment tribunal. I stress may as it would be up to the judge to rule on admissibility of such a recording depending on the circumstances of the case.

Just to clarify that it is not illegal to record a conversation which you are a party to for your own use. But letting anyone else listen to it or giving it to someone else is! So you would need to be careful. And, as stated above, dismissing you for doing this may be an option.

It would be better if you explained what your are talking about - there may be other options that people could think of.

sangie595

jondav wrote: »

I'm poking my nose in here because of a very similar situation and I have to ask......why does it matter exactly what was said?

OP has already given the details of the situation and the basics of the conversations. Surely it wouldn't be productive to post exact details on such an open forum?

Because if you check the posting times, they hadn't said when I posted!

Amendment -
And besides which, people can say things you don't like. It doesn't mean that they are saying something that is unlawful. What someone says could actually require one piece of advice, whilst something else requires something different. And some things it is better to consider staying quiet about!

sangie595

dannyrst wrote: »

Without wanting to share too much detail:

The employee has been diagnosed with mental health issues. The manager has, on several occasions, used this to single out the employee. When the manager is questioned on this infront of other staff, the manager denies ever saying anything.

This has caused the employee's health to deteriorate to the point of being signed off work.

I'm looking at how those initial remarks could be logged/recorded to allow future issues to be raised with evidence, as when it was initially raised, the manager denied it and everyone sided with him.

I am not clear why you (or whoever we are talking about) are questioning this "in front of other staff". That is not the way to raise an issue.

If there is an issue then that is raised, correctly, as a grievance in accordance with the employers policy. If you record something and then play it in front of other staff to "prove your point" then you are risking disciplinary action yourself. A workplace isn't a school playground - it isn't about who sides with who.

If these comments amount to bullying or discrimination then the grievance process is there to deal with this. If you aren't willing to go down that route then DO NOT do anything else or it will be you who is in trouble.

dannyrst

sangie595 wrote: »

I am not clear why you (or whoever we are talking about) are questioning this "in front of other staff". That is not the way to raise an issue.

If there is an issue then that is raised, correctly, as a grievance in accordance with the employers policy. If you record something and then play it in front of other staff to "prove your point" then you are risking disciplinary action yourself. A workplace isn't a school playground - it isn't about who sides with who.

If these comments amount to bullying or discrimination then the grievance process is there to deal with this. If you aren't willing to go down that route then DO NOT do anything else or it will be you who is in trouble.

I think you misunderstand/I explained badly. The comments are in passing, not in meetings or anything like that. Other staff are in the vicinity whilst the comments are made but they are made in a way so they cannot be heard by others. When questioned, the manager denies making the comment. It's not like the employee is shouting someone over and then questioning it.

The whole point of this thread is that I'm asking how do you make a grievance with no evidence other than what one person says happened? As it stands, there is no point raising the issue because it will just get shot down and the manager will persecute the employee more...

Malthusian

dannyrst wrote: »

The whole point of this thread is that I'm asking how do you make a grievance with no evidence other than what one person says happened?

You haven't even said what the grievance is for. "Singled out the employee" for what? Verbal abuse to their face, badmouthing behind their back, or something else? If the comments cannot be heard by anyone who is not the person being spoken to then how do you know what they are? Are you the person being spoken to?

Guest101

It can vary, obviously some mental health conditions do count as disabilities and it would be unlawful to discriminate on this basis.


But it's really depends on what he said

dannyrst

Malthusian wrote: »

You haven't even said what the grievance is for. "Singled out the employee" for what? Verbal abuse to their face, badmouthing behind their back, or something else? If the comments cannot be heard by anyone who is not the person being spoken to then how do you know what they are? Are you the person being spoken to?

Guest101 wrote: »

It can vary, obviously some mental health conditions do count as disabilities and it would be unlawful to discriminate on this basis.


But it's really depends on what he said

Apologies, I'm not willing to share the exact details on the internet. I was hoping there would be a fairly high level answer to the question.

Thanks anyway.