Ownership/Title of Windows

nxdmsandkaskdjaqd

I would appreciate some thoughts on a situation that I find myself in.

I have had an extension completed over the last 4 months and now find that the builder has effectively walked off the job due to a catalogue of mistakes (walls had to be taken down due to insufficient damp proof course, windows that have been refitted now 3 times due to not being the right size (builder error), ceilings need to be re-plastered due to poor quality workmanship, drains encased in footings, gas safety issues, etc).

The issue I have relates to the windows. We have paid the builder 50% of the fee for the windows but the window company has received no monies from the builder. Whilst the window company is being helpful in resolving the issues over the windows (we are currently liaising with the window company in finding a resolution to the issue, the builder has not been involved in these discussions) at some point in time they are going to want payment. As I have paid the builder 50% of the fee for the windows, what happens if he does pay the window company or folds his limited company? I have been told by the window company that if they do not receive payment, they own the title to the windows, and will remove them.

As the contract is between the builder and the window company, can they remove the windows if they do not receive payment from the builder?

I am happy to pay for the windows, but would now be reluctant to pay the builder in case he does not forward this onto the window company.

I would appreciate your comments.

bris

The window company has a contract with the builder not you. You are liable to the builder and the builder alone.


If the builder does not pay the window company can not chase you for payment or take back the windows. If the builder does go into administration then you would deal with the administrator and not the window company who would also have to deal with the administrator. Don't let them bully you, you owe them nothing.

nxdmsandkaskdjaqd

Does it make any difference to the above, if the window company has a clause in their contract regarding "Their Ownership/Title to the Goods until Paid for"?

DoaM

But their contract is with the builder, not you. Unless your contract with the builder also includes that clause (or similar) then it is irrelevant.

If the window company comes on to your land uninvited it is trespass. If they remove the windows without your permission it is theft.

naedanger

nxdmsandkaskdjaqd wrote: »

Does it make any difference to the above, if the window company has a clause in their contract regarding "Their Ownership/Title to the Goods until Paid for"?

If the company that fitted the windows did not own them then I can see why there might be a problem. That said I am reasonably sure the owner of the windows could not just remove them from your property.

Whether the owner of the windows would be able to sue you for the cost of the windows is another matter. I don't know whether this would be possible for them to do or not.

fleshandbone

This is a fantastic post by the op.

rtho782

The issue is surely that the homeowner has bought (or, partly bought) windows from a builder, who did not own title to those windows.

As such, they were not the builder's to sell, so the window company still own them, in the same way, if I bought a stolen car, even if I didn't know it was stolen it would get given back to it's owner.

As the window company own the windows, they are surely free to either take their windows back, or ask the homeowner to pay for them if the homeowner wants to keep them?

unholyangel

rtho782 wrote: »

The issue is surely that the homeowner has bought (or, partly bought) windows from a builder, who did not own title to those windows.

As such, they were not the builder's to sell, so the window company still own them, in the same way, if I bought a stolen car, even if I didn't know it was stolen it would get given back to it's owner.

As the window company own the windows, they are surely free to either take their windows back, or ask the homeowner to pay for them if the homeowner wants to keep them?

Not quite the same as in one case, you have goods willingly being handed over where the other, you take them without permission.

ROT clauses are a difficult area even for law professionals as an inadequately drafted clause can mean title isn't retained. If (for example) the supplier knew fine well that their buyer was selling on the goods/didnt have the clause drafted as to stipulate goods couldnt be sold until payment had been received in full etc, then title would pass.

However from what I've read, even a successful ROT clause wont entitle the supplier to take OP's windows. It would just give them a claim for payment for the goods over other creditors (ie so their goods/the value of the goods arent included in assets of the company during insolvency).

steampowered

No, I don't think he window company is entitled to get the windows back. I think you should refuse to pay and direct the window company to the builder if they have not been paid.

After the windows have been installed into your house, the windows no longer exist as a separate item of personal property. They now form part of the house. Lawyers refer to this as "mixing". In other words, the window company would not be entitled to come round to your house and remove the windows.

As the window company own the windows, they are surely free to either take their windows back, or ask the homeowner to pay for them if the homeowner wants to keep them?

This makes perfect logical sense. However, it is overriden by section 2 of the Factors Act 1889. Parliament decided quite some time ago that it would be unfair for business people to enforce retention of title arrangements against third parties who were not aware of them. That law basically says that a third party receives full legal title to an item of property, if they received it in good faith from a business person who had possession of those goods with the consent of the original owner, and provided that the third party was not aware that the goods were subject to a retention of title at the time.

This is basically why I think the Op does legally own the windows, even if the window company did not pass ownership to the builder.

nxdmsandkaskdjaqd

Thank you all for your replies. I now have a good overview of my rights. The next step is to see what happens and engage a professional if all gets nasty.

Thank you again.

shaun_from_Africa

Do you have any legal cover on your household insurance?
If so, they probably have someone that could give advice on how to proceed.