Appeal to the IAS or pay up?

zsxd23456

Hi there,

This is the first time I've received a parking fine. I did appeal to the parking company (Vehicle Control Services) but, of course, they denied the appeal.

My options are now to pay £60 or appeal to the IAS but have the fine increase to £100 if my appeal is denied by the IAS.

It's a bit difficult to give all the information as my appeal email included pictures which it seems cannot be uploaded in this forum.

The jist of it is...

Where I parked, there are three separate blocks of flats and underneath all of them is a shared car park. You have to go through the same gate regardless of where you're parking. As you go through the gate there's a yellow sign from one company, let's call them Parking Company 1 (PK1). As you go underneath one block of flats there's another yellow sign from the same company(PK1). As you drive further down there's another sign from a different parking company - VCS (the one that fined me) but I hadn't gone past that sign where I parked. So it's not clear where the PK1 parking stops and VCS's starts.

VCS's response states that it is is "solely the motorists responsibility to familiarise themselves with the signage on site". But I feel that it isn't clear which area VCS covers.

So do I pay up and pay £60, or appeal to the IAS and risk having to pay £100 if I lose the IAS appeal?

Any help will be greatly appreciated (I have to pay by 25th November if I choose to take the £60 hit).

Thanks!
Annoyed Motorist

Coupon-mad

My options are now to pay £60 or appeal to the IAS but have the fine increase to £100 if my appeal is denied by the IAS.

...So do I pay up and pay £60, or appeal to the IAS and risk having to pay £100 if I lose the IAS appeal?

None of the above. Don't PAY!

I'm assuming you have missed post #3 of the NEWBIES thread telling you about your options when NOT trying IAS (don't do it).

There isn't a next step so please don't ask, drives me mad when people always want a 'next step'! I hate that phrase...dunno why...spare me!

Ignore them and come back if you get BW Legal letters or a court claim. That's it.

2 questions:

1. Was this your block of flats or were you a visitor to a resident? Or delivering something, or what?

2. Have you admitted who was driving in your first appeal (doh!)?

There is still no next step, even when you answer!

Please read post #3 of the NEWBIES FAQs thread back on the first page of the forum where you clicked 'New Thread'.

Redx

zsxd23456 wrote: »

This is the first time I've received a parking fine.

My options are now to pay £60 or appeal to the IAS but have the fine increase to £100 if my appeal is denied by the IAS.

VCS (the one that fined me)

So do I pay up and pay £60, or appeal to the IAS and risk having to pay £100 if I lose the IAS appeal?

Any help will be greatly appreciated (I have to pay by 25th November if I choose to take the £60 hit).

Thanks!
Annoyed Motorist

neither , there is no obligation on you to pay ONE PENNY unless you lost in court

and its not a "FINE" its an invoice , so you still have not been "fined"

the third option you missed was

IGNORE for 6 years , unless you get an LBC or an MCOL in the post

zsxd23456

Thanks for the speedy response.

1. Was this your block of flats or were you a visitor to a resident? Or delivering something, or what?

I was a visitor to a friend who lived in the first block of flats (under which the yellow signs (PK1) are placed. I was parked under the second block of flats where VCS signs are placed. However, I still hadn't gone past the VCS sign.

2. Have you admitted who was driving in your first appeal (doh!)?

Well I used the phrase "I parked" so.... Yes

Like I said, I've never received a parking fine before and there is so much information/so many opinions available online on what to do/what not to do. I thought that if I put together a plausible case, gave evidence etc. to show that I wasn't going to just pay the £60 that they'd think it wasn't worth it and wouldn't proceed.

Obviously I know better now!

So your advice is to just ignore them completely then?

zsxd23456

Oh and their appeal rejection letter also says "Please note also that further costs may be incurred should it be necessary for us to subsequently recover any outstanding charge using debt recovery and/or court action"

Pretty standard scare tactics I'm sure but it does make me worry about ending up having to pay thousands rather than £60!

Redx

you can present such circumstances to a judge, if it gets that far, but VCS only want your money so you are wasting your time trying to mitigate the story with them

IGNORE is the best option like we said, unless they try a court claim , possibly through BW LEGAL (WITHIN 6 YEARS)

come back if BW LEGAL contact you or an MCOL from Northampton arrives in the post

although YOU may think its a fine , its not

its an invoice

if you lost in small claims court it is limited , so the most you might pay is up to £250 , typically around £175 or less and certainly not "thousands" , no idea why you think that when its only small claims court for one very , very small claim

Coupon-mad

Ignore expect for BW Legal letters/other solicitor letter/a claim. Come back here if so!

A case lost at a hearing would be about £50 on top of the £100 PCN. But we have not lost one v BW Legal (I don't count J/Joint's thread).

Please, please do not think it's easier to pay. That's why this industry exists and you would be funding a practice akin to a protection racket.

zsxd23456

Thanks for the advice. Just out of curiosity do you have a rough idea of what percentage of claims they (VCS or private parking companies in general) pursue via legitimate means (BW Legal/other solicitors/MCOL etc.) and what sort of time frame they take to start such methods?

It's not just the money but also the time I might need to spend that is concerning if they decide to take it further.

Coupon-mad

Yes, the BMPA website has insight into court claim numbers:

http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Vehicle_Control_Services.html

...a truly tiny percentage of the 95,000 or so PCNs VCS issue per annum (as you can see) got to court papers.

We would not call BW Legal 'legit means' and we've never seen a poster lose a case yet v BW Legal (I don't count 'J/Joint' as they didn't come back for help and their 'loss' and description of the hearing is questionable, especially bearing in mind Lamilad's win last week). Parking firms read forum threads and have been known to post spoof threads to scare people, as could any trouble-maker with an agenda different from our own.

"Please note also that further costs may be incurred should it be necessary for us to subsequently recover any outstanding charge using debt recovery and/or court action"

Pretty standard scare tactics I'm sure but it does make me worry about ending up having to pay thousands rather than £60!

That's what they want you to think. That cannot happen.

As for the time it takes, yes if you get BW Legal letters you will need to respond but we have letters you can copy because we've seen of hundreds of BW Legal threatograms, most of which never proceed and just keep repeating the same old letters two months later! Almost as if the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

If you were a relative of mine I would confidently advise you to sit tight and I would reassure you that template/example response letters are to hand here, should you get a claim. You get no CCJ and there is no risk in defending a claim, should they try, beyond the worst case scenario of actually losing at a hearing and paying £150-odd if the fat lady sings.

zsxd23456

Hi again,

Ok so it took them over a year but VCS have now passed my "account" over to BW Legal. I have uploaded a censored copy of the letter but MSE isn't letting me provide a link to it as I'm a new user (any ideas on how to share it if needed are welcome).

Since I (stupidly) already admitted I am the driver I'm not quite sure where to go from here. The letter says I can dispute the charge via their website but it seems I need to register an account to do so - is there any reason I shouldn't register an account?

Apologies if this is already covered elsewhere, I've tried to read what I can but I'm not sure it's relevant to me since I've (again, stupidly) admitted I was the driver.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Quentin

Assuming this letter is just a debt collecting attempt then no need to post it here.


The newbies faq thread covers the debt collectors stage - ignore debt collectors!


If you get a lbcca or court correspondence then come back for advice on how to defend it