A Right Hassle

Andy_Mann

Hello, believe it or not I have been through several threads here. Even looked at the official page on Moneysaving expert.com where there's a video on watchdog of a man advising PCN recipients to make paper aeroplanes. If anything I feel more confused about how to proceed than I did when I came looking here for help.

The long and short is that earlier this year, I was issued a PCN when I forgot to display the permit in the window of my wife's car. This resulted in an NSGL ticket. Someone who worked on the car park in question said with a nudge and a wink "Don't pay it, look online at the situation with PCN's, all they can do is send you nasty letters"

Letters came addressed to my wife, even though I was the driver. I advised her to ignore them as instructed.

A few months later, on the same car park, I got another PCN. This time,it was just unlucky that the permit had fallen off the dashboard. I chose to take the original advice and ignore. Now my wife is getting letters for two violations, except they're coming from ZZPS and the fee has naturally gone up.

As I felt it was just bad luck for the second PCN, I wrote to appeal and had it rejected,
Now I've got a 14 day notice from Wright Hassall threatening to take the matter to court.
I did appeal to Popla as suggested (for the later ticket) but as yet haven't heard back. Not feeling optimistic.

1. For the hassle this has made me feel, did I mention that ZZPS texted me to encourage a conversation? Well they did. It feels like harassment and I partly wish I'd just paid the respective £40 per ticket to just make it all go away.

2. Because the NSGL have categorically said that I should just deal with ZZPS now, Its a pain because It appears I can't have a convo that goes "How about I just pay the 2 x 40 for the original fines so you can have your bl:eek:dy money?'

3.Having been through these forums it seems like more aggro is coming in the case of actual small claims court proceedings.

It just seems that theres a heady mix of Don't pay/hold your ground/ ignore letters vs Haylp I'm being taken to court! etc.

Should I just go back to nsgl and make an offer or should I put up with more letters? I wish the car wasn't in my wife's name because it has naturally doubled the stress. I'd appreciate some progressive feedback if possible. Thanks. Andy

pogofish

You need to be reading up to date advice, not out of date pre-2012 stuff. Ignoring has not been routine advice for years, except in certain very specific situations.

Start with the Newbies Sticky at the top of this forum for an overview of the current situation and the range of options for challenging and read recent (last few months) Wright Hassall/ZZPS threads for more specific advice.

Also, ZZPS being involved does not mean the likelihood of court increseas - Read this for what you need to know about shonky debt collectors:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5035663

Fruitcake

The "official" MSE information concerning private parking tickets is absolutely dreadful, yet MSE refuse to amend it despite repeated complaints.

You can safely ignore debt collectors as they have no powers whatsoever.

There is nothing stopping you from making late appeals to the PPC for one of the tickets. They will be rejected but it will look better in court if it comes to that. Did you appeal the other one as keeper or diver? Hopefully the former.

As already mentioned, the advice to ignore has not been given on this forum since the law changed in 2012.

You haven't told us the location where these alleged events occurred. Were they for a residential site, workplace, retail park, or what?

pappa_golf

judging by the way they removed bargepoles request last week , maybe keeping that link "live" was at the request of the BPA/ipc

Redx

I was reading an old N.M.E a few weeks ago and ELVIS was doing a concert in VEGAS hint

not sure if or when he is coming to the U.K., lol

Andy_Mann

Fruitcake :
In all honesty, it's a confusing arrangement...apparently the larger construction company I've been working for own the land, but have leased it to NSGL as a car park, a dedicated staff and subcontractors area has been set aside for permit holders, the rest of the area has been going through an identity crisis of being part storage, part overspill parking...As far as I could tell, until fairly recently, one could park the car and buy a ticket from a machine even if you weren't connected with the construction firm, but I understand that no longer applies.

Regarding debt collector letters, does that include Wright Hassall letters as well? I'm not sure if I'm going to regret ignoring their 14 days to respond letter.

Thanks to everyone whos posted helpful links, I'll go through them now

Redx

depends if WH sent it or not, why do I say that ?

because WH and Gladstones and others "rent out" letterheads to the debt colellectors who then send out the demands as if it came from a solicitors office , devious ? yes , underhand ? - yes - but well documented on various forums (other brands are also available as several do this trick)

so if you think its a DC letter, ignore it (usually you can research it and spot the difference, plus who you pay or the website listed also tells you if its a DCA or not)

if its an official solicitors letter, they will expect you to deal with them and have their details, their email , their phone numbers etc

if in any doubt , respond anyway

Andy_Mann

The WH letter has been received from 'head of debt recovery operations' I've had a look for other posts on these forums, seen a scan with mostly blacked out user info - the main difference in presentation is that their letter has a header/title saying 'Formal letter of claim' whereas mine doesn't.

I'm going a bit snowblind following the links and posts to various threads about the correct way to proceed.

The first PCN and consequent letters I have paid attention to but ignored. Identity of driver or keeper remains undisclosed

The second PCN I have taken in appeal to Popla- I guess that Identifies me as the driver.

Unless advised otherwise, I may just go back to NSGL and offer the original early payment combined fees as a settlement offer and see what they say. As it has been suggested, they'll probably reject but at least its an offer.

"If in any doubt, respond anyway"

I appreciate your comments Redx

Coupon-mad

Even looked at the official page on Moneysaving expert.com where there's a video on watchdog of a man advising PCN recipients to make paper aeroplanes

OMG is that still there? That's from 2010!! MSE needs to remove it.


https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203747112-Wright-Hassall

I don't recall WH actually starting court claims for ages (maybe a handful in early Summer).

I wouldn't bust a gut to respond at all.

Unless advised otherwise, I may just go back to NSGL and offer the original early payment combined fees as a settlement offer and see what they say. As it has been suggested, they'll probably reject but at least its an offer.

Yup - if you must - (I would NOT) but that will need to be offered in YOUR WIFE's name as keeper, not saying who was driving (unless this is the one where you've already admitted who was driving in an earlier appeal)?

And head any offer 'without prejudice, save as to costs'.

The registered keeper is in a far better position to defend a case than a driver.

Personally I would wait and see if they try a claim.

Which one is at POPLA, surely not the one you are thinking of making an offer for?

Andy_Mann

Hello, sorry for the delay in responding to your last comment. I haven't offered anything yet... the first PCN I haven't acknowledged at all, the second one I have submitted as an appeal to POPLA (no news as yet) I honestly don't know how to proceed, I'd like it to all just go away because of the time and aggro involved but I really don't want to be shafted on the matter either. Maybe its too late for that now anyway. ...

Do you think I should not be to concerned about the Make a full payment within 14 days as demanded by the WH letter? You say you wouldn't bust a gut to respond at all, if they try to claim, wouldn't the costs just potentially escalate for me?

Redx

costs have been dealt with many times on this forum, including this thread only yesterday

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5560898

believe me , I see little on here that is new, its all been asked and answered many times before