New 50 metre hedge

cyclonebri1

Davesnave, in particular I'd appreciate your comments;

I'm trying to establish a 50 metre long hedge to my daughters property that has a public footpath to the side.

The site is ex opencast, ie, broken land as known in the farming world. We struggled last year with planning etc and the hedge planted has pretty much failed.

To explain we obtained bare root beech and planted at 3 per metre, but due to being unable to plough until early May, the plants where in full leaf by the end of May when planted. Rabbits got some, now sorted, but only about a 25% survival rate.

So, given wet clay conditions we are planting a second staggered row, but this time Hornbeam, reckonned to be much more suitable for the site conditions.

Site trenched out and drained from end of trench and plants here today. They have come in well over sized and over priced. We ordered 1 to 1.2 metre plants but these average 1.3. All now sorted with supplier re price but now have a dilemma.

These are bigger than I would normally choose for bare root planting, immediate reaction would be to plant normally and reduce size by say 30%, ie all down to 90cms

But, how about I plants these at approx 30 to 45 degrees from the vertical to get what are likely to be leggy shrubs to fill out at lower level?.

Plants go in Monday so knowledgeable advice welcomed

DaftyDuck

I think you are saying you planted the beech in May, into clay soil. I'm quite surprised a quarter survived, to be blunt, but nothing is perfect when needs must. Beech isn't as tolerant as hornbeam, particularly as far as wet establishment goes. With clay soil, that'll be more so. Do not plant the stems too deep, especially if the soil is heavy. Just below the surface for the top roots.

I'd certainly still cut back by a third, it always pays dividends, reduces root stress while establishing, and gives much sturdier growth.

I'd also ensure I overdug the holes to loosen a little deeper for drainage. Mycorrhizal fungi do help in establishment, and there are next day deliverers, I believe, for your Monday planting. It really does work, especially if the current beech hasn't established very well, and I'd always use it.

Planting at an angle? Yes, it can help, but you'll definitely need to cut back, tips off the main stem, plus cut back upward branches. It won't help a higher proportion survive, though, just strengthen and slow those that do survive.

Overall, best thing this time is planting at a better time of year.

Hope it is, anyway, as I've got a couple of hundred metres going in in the next couple of weeks!

Davesnave

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

Davesnave, in particular I'd appreciate your comments;

What Dafty said ^ except I never saw any difference when I planted half of my beech hedge with mycorrhizal fungi and the other half without, but I did use lots of manure.

That was a mistake too, because the manure was full of worms, so the local moles homed-in to make a mole motorway under the entire hedge, wrecking my firming-in.

I would cut back. I always do to get a bushier result, although my plants have been smaller than yours. I agree hornbeam is tough and undemanding. It's faster into leaf than beech as well.

If I planted into my hedges in May, I'd imagine nothing would survive. They're dried-out hostile places in summer. Some hazels I put in 3 years ago have still barely moved, but they've all survived because they got a good start in late autumn. Some of my spring plantings have vanished without trace, so this is the best time you can do it.

Good luck.

cyclonebri1

Thanks to both of you, reliable as always.

Beech was bought in Jan, delays in planning permiss and a wet winter meant the garden, ex cow pasture could not be ploughed until May, Beech was in half leaf when planted but it was plant or bin.

We bought in 2 tons of sandy topsoil and some muck, trench runs away from house into the fields so should drain.

I realise cutting back should reduce the load on the roots and also encourage lower shoot sprouting, hence my suggestion.

Based on advice will slope plants 15-20 degrees away from the wind and reduce the height as I said, (did this with the beech). Incidentally. I got 15 Laurel and 15 Beech that are planted at right angles in a double hedge for the top boundary, trenched in, but pot grown and planted later. These are romping on.

Thanks again, great experienced advice that confirms my thoughts, :beer::beer:

DaftyDuck

Dave, the fungi will only really pay dividends if there wasn't a hedge or set of trees there before. If there were, it will be plentiful in the soil anyway.

I did a speriment, being a sientits, where I planted about 40 beech with none, 40 with some, and 40 with lots. ... Was looking perfect, with the well enriched all surviving, and the non treated looking poorly. Neighbour then got a Labrador puppy. Half were pulled up by the roots, a third were widdled to death, and the rest crunched as he demanded ball ball ball ball ball over the fence. He was so cute, though. Neighbour was so apologetic she paid for a professional to replace the lot. They all grew, but I never found out if they'd been treated in any way.


Cyclone... Yeah, it's needs must when it comes to timing, and all plans tumble in the face of adversity. Given your previous timing, I wouldn't be disheartened, and I'd expect almost 100% success this time. Only plantation an angle if the finished result would suit you... It all should grow anyway this time!

Monday planting it is, right in this bout of horrible weather. Preparing my hedge then too!

Davesnave

My 85' of beech all went in where there had been nowt but coarse grasses before. I ran out of the fungi half way through planting a double row and I didn't want to wait, so......

Then came the moles, but their attentions were over by late spring, when they'd cleared the worms and moved on.

That was 2010/11. The hedge is now 6' or so high, having been pruned hard after planting and annually by her outdoors ever since. I can't see any difference between one end and the other in terms of growth, density or...anything.

Edit: My hornbeam hedge between us and the commercial neighbour has gone great guns since being planted in winter 2013/14. That area is quite boggy in the winter and dries out well in summer. Some of those are already taller than me, but I will cut them hard again soon.

cyclonebri1

DaftyDuck wrote: »

Dave, the fungi will only really pay dividends if there wasn't a hedge or set of trees there before. If there were, it will be plentiful in the soil anyway.

I did a speriment, being a sientits, where I planted about 40 beech with none, 40 with some, and 40 with lots. ... Was looking perfect, with the well enriched all surviving, and the non treated looking poorly. Neighbour then got a Labrador puppy. Half were pulled up by the roots, a third were widdled to death, and the rest crunched as he demanded ball ball ball ball ball over the fence. He was so cute, though. Neighbour was so apologetic she paid for a professional to replace the lot. They all grew, but I never found out if they'd been treated in any way.


Cyclone... Yeah, it's needs must when it comes to timing, and all plans tumble in the face of adversity. Given your previous timing, I wouldn't be disheartened, and I'd expect almost 100% success this time. Only plantation an angle if the finished result would suit you... It all should grow anyway this time!

Monday planting it is, right in this bout of horrible weather. Preparing my hedge then too!

Cheers planting delayed again due to rains but should be tommorrow:A

Angling them?, just thinking that whilst these aren't leggy, but as with any nursery grown stock, they are grown for length as that's how they price them, not for stumpy but better spread plants, so few lower stems. Setting at an reasonable angle, say 15/20 deg should encourage lower buds and give some wind resistance? Done it before with hawthorn and they "correct themselves pretty quickly.


What I didn't make clear although you been sympathetic to the fact, was that we bought the bare root stock in Jan, but delayed planning approval over fence type meant fence din't go in until too late and hedge needed to be done later.

Held 15 of the beech back and planted in a raised "specimen" bed. all made great growth and will be planted as a copse this march, but will need good prep and growth rates not expected to be great

cyclonebri1

Davesnave wrote: »

My 85' of beech all went in where there had been nowt but coarse grasses before. I ran out of the fungi half way through planting a double row and I didn't want to wait, so......

Then came the moles, but their attentions were over by late spring, when they'd cleared the worms and moved on.

That was 2010/11. The hedge is now 6' or so high, having been pruned hard after planting and annually by her outdoors ever since. I can't see any difference between one end and the other in terms of growth, density or...anything.

Edit: My hornbeam hedge between us and the commercial neighbour has gone great guns since being planted in winter 2013/14. That area is quite boggy in the winter and dries out well in summer. Some of those are already taller than me, but I will cut them hard again soon.

Dave, never grown Hornbeam before, read it has the most vibrant spring green of any hedge, but maybe disappoints with autumn colour, your view?

Davesnave

My hornbeam at present is brighter than the beech, which has turned brown.

The brown of the beech might be considered a nicer brown than the hornbeam however, as that's rather dull- looking and a sort of matt finish when it's fully 'browned.'.

Both hang on through winter. I like beech for formal and hornbeam for informal.

cyclonebri1

Given the conditions I thing beech is going to be a no-no unless an awful lot of prep is done.
Regarding the HB, actually when I went to collect the 120 plants they did look very dull, but then the nurseryman pointed out some larger specimens that were in very large tubs, about 3ft dia, they were a gorgeous colour, probably the brightest of anything on site. Must have been down to the conditions they were grown in.

I will persevere with a small copse of Copper beech I want to plant, I find there is no lovelier tree than mature copper/purple beech, but on this ground they are going to need far greater improvement to soil than anything that's challenged me before.

The beech hedge has been left in, some has started to bud up for next year and some hasn't so only time will tell, but the adjacent trenching for the hornbeam may actually help the beech survivors provided I stagger the planting. Will remove any failures at end of next season to allow max space for the HB.

DaftyDuck

In my post, I'd forgotten you'd got some viable, healthy beech in when I was saying add fungi. The established hedge plants should supply it to the newbies, if yer lucky!