Backdated gas bill - who is responsible?

supernova2029

Hi all,

Hopefully somebody who has been in a similar situation can help me out with this one. Sorry for the long winded explaination!

I moved in to a shared accommodation property a couple of years ago on a joint tenancy agreement. Shortly into the contract the original two tenants needed to move out and the landlord said he was happy for me to find two people to replace them. All fine so far, I find two new people who want to move in and we sign over the joint tenancy agreement to include the two new tenants and remove the other two.

Upon moving out the old tenant transferred the utility bills to me. I start to receive bills from EDF Energy and although the bill is in my name we happily split the bill three ways.

Fast forward a year, I notice the top of my bill only says I am paying for electricity. I know I should have noticed this sooner, but I didn't really check it - only the amount which needed to be paid. I didn't really question the amount because the house I previously lived in was much much bigger, compared to this small three bed flat. I know I should have read the bill more thoroughly – lesson learnt.

I immediately call EDF energy who told me there is no gas meter registered at this property, and they recommended that I speak with southern gas networks. Southern gas networks tell me the same thing - that they can't find a meter registered with this property so it looks like it is a shipperless site.

I call back EDF who asked me to do a burn test to ID which gas meter was mine and to send in a picture of the meter so they can take me on as a supplier. I sent a picture of the meter and don't hear anything. I give it 6 weeks and I sent a reminder email. Still nothing. I give them another month before I call them. This time I am told that they cannot proceed any further until I speak with Royal mail. Apparently my address is not registered on their database. After a prolonged period I finally get a email from the council to say my property has been added to the address database.

I call back EDF who ask me to send a picture of the meter again. Eventually I hear back from EDF and they ask me to contact SSE as it looks like they are listed as my supplier. After speaking with SSE and giving them the meter MPRN they confirm they they are not supping the address either.

I decide to give British gas a call to see if they can help, as no one at this stage seems to want to or be able to take me on as a supplier. Helpfully British gas notice that there are two meters registered for Flat A, so one of these must be mine. The advisor at British gas calls SSE on my behalf to explain the situation and SSE finally note that they are supplying that meter.

Why it was registered to the wrong address I do not know, but this house was only converted into flats in 2012 so I believe that no one has ever paid the gas bill for this property. There are 5 flats in this house and the meter was registered against the flat downstairs. Obviously I havent received a single bill for gas in this time. Presumably Flat A have, but if they have I don't know why they wouldn't have flagged getting two gas bills.

In the 10 months or so that it has taken to get to this stage there has been another switch around of tenants, one of which I know has moved back to Australia, and the other I don't have a contact for the other.

FINALLY my question. It seems like SSE are going to want to backdate me (fair enough) but as this is a joint tenancy then surely we are all liable, including the people who have since moved out?

They have asked me to send in my tenancy agreement so they can ascertain when I moved in here and how much they should back bill me but I am worrying that they will just set up the account in my name and hold me solely responsible.

I am going to speak with citizens advice, but any advice her also would be much appreciated.

Best

CashStrapped

Unfortunately, you will find that this is very common.

Buildings are converted from houses to flats with multiple meters. Because of this, it is very easy for the meters to be assigned to the wrong flat, nor the address properly registered.

It is like a domino effect. If you are paying for the wrong meter, the flat that is using that meter is also paying for a different meter and so on. So the whole block is probably paying the wrong meter.

So, as you can imagine, it is like trying to un-knot tangled string.

It may take years to sort out. No only do you have to convince the suppliers that your meter is your meter, you have to work out what you owe or do not owe, and what you have paid to the wrong company. Multiply this across all the flats and throw in the transient nature of flat occupation and you have a mess.

If there is a residents association, it maybe worth you going door to door and trying to work everything out. Then number the meters so they correspond to the flats.

What was the original EDF bill made up of? Was it just electricity? Or was it a duel fuel?

I would expect your flatmates to be jointly liable, but the energy company will just chase you for the outstanding amount unfortunately. They may, if you go through the complaints procedure make a reduction on the amount you owe, so just kick up a fuss, and make it clear the meter was not registered to the flat.

Other forum users know the backbilling rule better than I do. This is where the individual may not be liabl, due to the time that has passed and lack of contact from the supplier. But, normally you must make some attempt to find the supplier and pay the bill for it to apply.

Without meter readings, ascertaining what you have used may be very hard. If it is gas for heating, there could be a huge range (in terms of possible use), if it is just for cooking it could be as little as £20 a year.

supernova2029

Thanks for your reply cashstrapped

My fuel bil from EDF is only for Electric. I know I should have checked my bill more thoroughly for what I was paying for exactly, but as soon as I saw it was for electricity only I called EDF and started this whole process of trying to identify who the supplier is.

I actually called SSE some months back after national grid said it's possible that they are the supplier for that meter. When I called them some months back they and gave tem the meter number they said they had nothing to do with the meter. When I called them again today they said again that the do not have an account tied up with the meter. I called British Gas on a whim to see they could help and he confirmed that the meter was with SSE. After I explained that they denied it wass with them the Brish Gas advisor agreed to call on my behalf to explain.

Anyway the web has now been untangled and SSE are the supplier for the meter.

My main issue now is that they are going to start to chase me for the bill when it is a joint tenancy and several of the tenants have now moved on.

I have no idea if they have been taking meter readings, but the gas supply is for heating and hot water.

CashStrapped

Well, looking at it, have you actually created an account with SSE? You had an account with EDF but not SSE while the meter was wrongly assigned.

How long have you been living there? I would not look to put my sole name on an account if there has been such a muck up with the metering. The fact that you have tried to trace the account once the error was realised means you probably do have a good case. The fact that SSE did not want to know goes in your favour.

I would look to come to some sort of agreement with SSE. Possibly even writing off the debt as you were not solely responsible for the gas use. The meter was registered to another flat. SSE failed to take ownership when asked. All these things can make it difficult to put the debt in your sole name, as you technically did not have an account. But, try to ensure this is agreed before setting up a new account in joint names (if possible) before going forward to pay future bills. To put it simply, insist that they treat you as a new customer starting from now.

Again, others may have more specifics on the legalities of backbilling code. But, I would think you have a case.

supernova2029

I have no account with SSE. The only account I have is with EDF for my electricity. The electricity meter is assigned correctly.

I have been living here for two years and I noticed the problem with the gas a year ago. It has taken a year to finally find out which supplier is tied to the meter.

I am very hesitant to take on the account solely in my name, especially as there has been several changes of tenants which I no longer have contact with.

I'll see what advice CAB can give

spiro

It is highly unlikely that the back billing rule will apply because it is designed to cover when you supplier failed to bill you not when you fail to register with the supplier.
In terms of the money owed as you are there with you name on the account they will bill you for the full amount and it will be down to you to collect monies from the other tenants. They would classify it as a third party debt and of no interest to them.
Sorry this is not what you want to hear but this is one of the pitfalls of shared accomodation.

footyguy

Hello supernova2029, and welcome to MSE :hello:

You ask in your thread title "who is responsible?" but I suspect you already know who should be responsible for paying for the gas that you have used.

When you became responsible for the property, you should have contacted the gas supplier to the property and opened an account with them. For whatever reason, you did not do that.
It is surprising that the supplier has not written to your address in the 2 years you appear to have been responsible for the property requesting contact, but that does not negate your obligation to have contacted them.

You need to contact them. They will ask when you first became responsible for the property, and may ask you to prove it for example by supplying a copy of your tenancy agreement.

You will then be billed for the consumption at the property from that date. Unfortunately, as you have not previously contacted the supplier and arranged an alternative tariff, they will almost certainly charge you according to their standard variable rate tariff (their most expensive one!) :eek:

You may find it difficult to reapy all that you owe in one lump sum immedaitely, but if you ask them nicely, they should arrange for you to pay back the amount owed at a rate you can afford. Agreeing to pay monthly by direct debit should aide this request, as well as probably allowing you to have a much more competitive tariff applied from this point onwards

supernova2029

Hi Spiro and footyguy

Thanks for your replys

My name isn't on the account for the gas with SSE, only for the electricity with EDF. I was hoping the back dating rule would apply. When I noticed that I wasn't being billed for gas about a year ago, I called EDF who said I didn't have a supplier and they advised I called the national grid. When I called the national grid they advised me that it looks like my meter was registered at the wrong property, but the supplier is SSE.

When I called SSE they didn't accept that the meter was theirs. This is when I went back to EDF to start the (lengthy) process of registering my meter with them as getting themt o take me on as a supplier. Eventually they came back to me two days ago and said SSE was my supplier.

I called SSE again yesterday and they once again told me that they were not the supplier. Thats when I called British gas because I knew one of the two meters registered at flat A was with them so perhaps I did have the wrong meter. British gas confirmed I did have the right meter and called SSE on my behalf and finally they accepted that they were supplying the meter.

Now surely they are at fault for not realizing that they were supplying the meter when I called them all of that time ago and need to take a share of the responsibility? My mistake was to not notice I wasn't getting billed for gas from EDF.

In the mean time during all of this faffing about there have been several changes of tenants.

CashStrapped

spiro wrote: »

In terms of the money owed as you are there with you name on the account they will bill you for the full amount and it will be down to you to collect monies from the other tenants.

footyguy wrote: »

It is surprising that the supplier has not written to your address in the 2 years you appear to have been responsible for the property requesting contact

This situation is slightly different is it not?

1) The meter was assigned to the wrong address, and not registered to the OPs property.

2) The OP has never had an account with SSE, so they are not yet liable as an individual. There should be no way SSE can assign the whole debt to her at this stage.

3) The OP, once realising the error, has tried to contact SSE who refused to acknowledge that the meter was theirs nor that it should be registered to their flat.

4) In the time the OP moved in, there has been a number of differing tenants, so the OP should not expect to take sole responsibility for the debt. The OP has actually been the most truthful and honest in trying to sort the mess. The original landlord or first tenant should have done this.

5) It also suggests that this issue was probably present before the OP moved into the flat share. I assume since 2012 since the flats were converted.

So, I would say there are some mitigating circumstances. I would certainly not think it a good idea at this stage, to create an account with SSE in your sole name. They may try to assign the whole debt to you which I do not think should be your sole responsibility to sort out.

It is a difficult one, and in my opinion not a clear cut case of someone avoiding (or conveniently forgetting) to pay a bill as it first appears.

footyguy

CashStrapped wrote: »

This situation is slightly different is it not?

1) The meter was assigned to the wrong address, and not registered to the OPs property.

2) The OP has never had an account with SSE, so they are not yet liable as an individual. There should be no way SSE can assign the whole debt to her at this stage.

3) The OP, once realising the error, has tried to contact SSE who refused to acknowledge that the meter was theirs nor that it should be registered to their flat.

4) In the time the OP moved in, there has been a number of differing tenants, so the OP should not expect to take sole responsibility for the debt. The OP has actually been the most truthful and honest in trying to sort the mess. The original landlord or first tenant should have done this.

5) It also suggests that this issue was probably present before the OP moved into the flat share. I assume since 2012 since the flats were converted.

So, I would say there are some mitigating circumstances. I would certainly not think it a good idea at this stage, to create an account with SSE in your sole name. They may try to assign the whole debt to you which I do not think should be your sole responsibility to sort out.

It is a difficult one, and in my opinion not a clear cut case of someone avoiding (or conveniently forgetting) to pay a bill as it first appears.

As soon as the user has used any energy supplied by the supplier, then a deemed contract is said to exist. The supplier can bill that person (once they identify them) at the supplier's default tariff.

The situation is somewhat complicated because the OP doesn't really make any sense. i.e. it was said

Upon moving out the old tenant transferred the utility bills to me.

Now if what has been posted is correct, the SSE were supplying when the previous tenant moved out too .. and so either the account was not transferred or the gas has gone unpaid for a very long time indeed (with no contact from the supplier)

Doesn't mnake sense really, as (a) if the previous tenant did transfer the utilitites, they would have contacted the relevant suppliers and given a closing meter reading or (b) the OP would have asked where the gas utility account was when all the other accounts were transferred. (as presumably the OP was well aware the property had a gas supply)

supernova2029

Hi footguy,

I don't believe the gas has ever been paid for this property. When the house was converted into flats it seems my gas meter was registered with the property downstarirs and it has stayed that way ever since, with gas being supplied but no bills being paid.

So when the previous tenants transferred utilities to me I started receiving a bill from EDF which myself and the new tenants began to pay. It wasn't until much later (admittedly my fault) that I noticed that I was only being billed for electricity.

A year ago when I called SSE they told me that they were not the supplier, and they were still telling me this right up until this week.