Sainsbury's Energy - DD Payment Only?

Taylorette

I posted this in the Sainsbury's Energy feedback thread yesterday as I saw that others had been posting questions, but I'm not sure it was the best place for it. Apologies if I've made an error here.

Yesterday I was in the process of "switching" from British Gas to Sainsbury's Energy online on behalf of elderly relatives.

I selected the pay by quarterly cash/cheque option and the final sign-up page confirmed this. However, when I read the terms and conditions linked at the bottom of the page it stated "Paying for your energy - You’ll need to pay by Direct Debit" and no reference to any other payment options.

Surely this can't be the only way they can pay? If so, why give the option to select quarterly or monthly cash/cheque payments?

I've tried calling pretty much every phone number listed on their website only to be told they're unable to answer such queries (as the phone numbers are for existing customers and quotes only).

My relatives received a letter from British Gas recently stating "as you have not being paying your Direct Debits recently, we will now be billing you monthly" - they have never had a Direct Debit set up before! After calling to get this changed back to quarterly payments they were told that the letter had been sent to everyone with a smart meter, regardless of whether they had been paying by Direct Debit or not. They'd only had the smart meter installed 4 days prior to this. I'm wondering if this situation with Sainsbury's Energy is just another way to force people into paying by DD.

Is anybody who is with Sainsbury's Energy able to advise on the quarterly cash payment versus DD situation?

macman

The vast majority of competitive tariffs require monthly fixed DD payment-what is your objection to this, given the safeguards of the DD Guarantee?
I would imagine that with many suppliers, the only tariffs that allow other payment methods would be Standard Variable-which is presumably what you are switching from.
Filter out DD payment on any comp site and you will see that most of the cheapest tariffs are no longer available.

footyguy

Taylorette wrote: »

I posted this in the Sainsbury's Energy feedback thread yesterday as I saw that others had been posting questions, but I'm not sure it was the best place for it. Apologies if I've made an error here.

Yesterday I was in the process of "switching" from British Gas to Sainsbury's Energy online on behalf of elderly relatives.

I selected the pay by quarterly cash/cheque option and the final sign-up page confirmed this. However, when I read the terms and conditions linked at the bottom of the page it stated "Paying for your energy - You’ll need to pay by Direct Debit" and no reference to any other payment options.

Surely this can't be the only way they can pay? If so, why give the option to select quarterly or monthly cash/cheque payments?

I've tried calling pretty much every phone number listed on their website only to be told they're unable to answer such queries (as the phone numbers are for existing customers and quotes only).

My relatives received a letter from British Gas recently stating "as you have not being paying your Direct Debits recently, we will now be billing you monthly" - they have never had a Direct Debit set up before! After calling to get this changed back to quarterly payments they were told that the letter had been sent to everyone with a smart meter, regardless of whether they had been paying by Direct Debit or not. They'd only had the smart meter installed 4 days prior to this. I'm wondering if this situation with Sainsbury's Energy is just another way to force people into paying by DD.

Is anybody who is with Sainsbury's Energy able to advise on the quarterly cash payment versus DD situation?

How did you apply for the Sainsburys tariff?
Was it direct on the Sainsburys website, or via a third party comparison site?

If you use the Sainsburys site and select payment by cash or cheque, it provides 3 seperate tariffs taht allow you to pay by cash or cheque
(Note it is traditional quarterly billing, not monthly)
The tariffs are Standard, Fix & Reward March 2018, and Price Freeze November 2017.

Note that these tariffs may also be available to those paying by monthly DD, and where they do lower unit prices may apply.

If you tried to switch via a comparison site, they may only offer you the chance to switch via them if you agree to pay by direct debit.

Taylorette

macman wrote: »

The vast majority of competitive tariffs require monthly fixed DD payment-what is your objection to this, given the safeguards of the DD Guarantee?
I would imagine that with many suppliers, the only tariffs that allow other payment methods would be Standard Variable-which is presumably what you are switching from.
Filter out DD payment on any comp site and you will see that most of the cheapest tariffs are no longer available.

It is my elderly relatives (aged 87 and 94) who do not wish to pay by DD. They have always paid in cash and will continue to do so while they are still able - they won't budge on this.

footyguy wrote: »

How did you apply for the Sainsburys tariff?
Was it direct on the Sainsburys website, or via a third party comparison site?

If you use the Sainsburys site and select payment by cash or cheque, it provides 3 seperate tariffs taht allow you to pay by cash or cheque
(Note it is traditional quarterly billing, not monthly)
The tariffs are Standard, Fix & Reward March 2018, and Price Freeze November 2017.

Note that these tariffs may also be available to those paying by monthly DD, and where they do lower unit prices may apply.

If you tried to switch via a comparison site, they may only offer you the chance to switch via them if you agree to pay by direct debit.

The quote was generated on the MSE Cheap Energy Club site, which prompts you to apply directly via the Sainsbury's Energy site.

The tariff selected is Price Freeze November 2017 which, as you say, allows you to select quarterly cash payments. However, the T&Cs for Price Freeze November 2017 state "You'll need to pay by Direct Debit".

http://www.sainsburysenergy.com/products-and-services/energy/our-energy-tariffs/price-freeze-november-2017/terms-and-conditions.html

footyguy

Using the CEC, if you select pay monthly by Direct Debit, then you can switch to the Sainsburys Price Freeze November 2017 via the CEC (and earn possible cashback)

You cannot switch via the CEC if paying quarterly by cash or cheque - as you say, you are prompted to apply directly

For the East Midlands supply region (as an example), the costs of the tariff if paying by DD are (as provided by the CEC):
Gas:
Unit charge: 3.612p per kWh
Standing charge: 10.500p per day

Electricity:
Unit rate: 11.981p per kWh
Standing charge: 10.500p per day


If paying by cash or cheque quarterly on receipt of bill:
Gas:
Unit charge: 3.843p per kWh
Standing charge: 10.500p per day

Electricity:
Unit rate: 12.915p per kWh
Standing charge: 10.500p per day

This is consistent with what I posted previously (and is consistent with the terms you linked to)

Your prices may change depending on how you pay.

i.e. lower unit prices for agreeing to pay monthly by DD

Edit: Sainsburys might bill your relatives monthly rather than quarterly because of the smart meter which means the supplier should have accurate meter readings to do so - you'll need to check with Sainsburys if they will agree to retain quarterly billing on request in this circumstance.

Taylorette

I fully understand that the unit price increases when paying by cash/cheque. What I don't understand is that when allowed to select the cash/cheque option I am then met with T&Cs which state "You will need to pay by Direct Debit".

This was the only thing stopping me yesterday which is a shame, as I've compared again today and the savings have decreased. I didn't want to be in a position where I have signed up having selected the cash/cheque option, only to be told my relatives will have to pay by DD as stated in the T&Cs (which conflicts with the section you quoted about prices changing in line with payment types).

Thank you for the point about monthly payments; I'll query this. Hopefully they will oblige as British Gas did previously.

macman

Taylorette wrote: »

It is my elderly relatives (aged 87 and 94) who do not wish to pay by DD. They have always paid in cash and will continue to do so while they are still able - they won't budge on this.




The quote was generated on the MSE Cheap Energy Club site, which prompts you to apply directly via the Sainsbury's Energy site.

The tariff selected is Price Freeze November 2017 which, as you say, allows you to select quarterly cash payments. However, the T&Cs for Price Freeze November 2017 state "You'll need to pay by Direct Debit".

http://www.sainsburysenergy.com/products-and-services/energy/our-energy-tariffs/price-freeze-november-2017/terms-and-conditions.html

Then they are shooting themselves in the foot and will not be able to access the cheapest tariffs. I had the same issue with my (even older) mum for a while. Once I'd switched her to DD (for gas, electricity, phone, water and C. Tax), she was absolutely fine with it.
The reality is that collecting manual payments costs the supplier much more in overheads and lost cashflow, and they will pass those costs on to non-DD customers.

SammenForLivet2

I believe based on Sainsbury's Energy's three tariffs, the only tariff available for customers who pay via a manual payment method at the moment, is Standard, as there is no specific charge or discount available for customers who use direct debit on the tariffs (for instance, some energy firms will offer, say a £50 discount per year for paying via Direct Debit), whereas I believe Sainsbury's offer no discount/ implied charge.

footyguy

SammenForLivet2 wrote: »

I believe based on Sainsbury's Energy's three tariffs, the only tariff available for customers who pay via a manual payment method at the moment, is Standard, as there is no specific charge or discount available for customers who use direct debit on the tariffs (for instance, some energy firms will offer, say a £50 discount per year for paying via Direct Debit), whereas I believe Sainsbury's offer no discount/ implied charge.

Your post is entirely wrong, and I am getting the feeling you know it is.
(I've seen this post by you too
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=71598146&postcount=7 )

I have indicated here the difference in price for the Sainsburys Price Freeze November 2017 tariff, dependent on how you wish to pay.

No supplier may offer a fixed discount as you suggest for agreeing to pay by DD.
Fixed discounts can only be offered for dual fuel and/or online management.

polymaff

Taylorette wrote: »

... What I don't understand is that when allowed to select the cash/cheque option I am then met with T&Cs which state "You will need to pay by Direct Debit".

The core issue is that you (plural) want the benefits associated with DD payments without the DD payments. It's your (plural) choice. Whether you think that the site has misled you is really irrelevant to making that choice.

The risks associated with DDs are grossly over-exaggerated. Some time ago I suffered a DD failure where every Powergen account with my (quite common) surname was charged to my bank account. Sure, it instantly emptied my bank account, but a) this'll probably be the first, first-hand, account you'll have read of such a happening, and b) I survived it with minimal trauma.

SammenForLivet2

footyguy wrote: »

Your post is entirely wrong, and I am getting the feeling you know it is.
(I've seen this post by you too
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=71598146&postcount=7 )

I have indicated here the difference in price for the Sainsburys Price Freeze November 2017 tariff, dependent on how you wish to pay.

No supplier may offer a fixed discount as you suggest for agreeing to pay by DD.
Fixed discounts can only be offered for dual fuel and/or online management.

I know quite a few suppliers that offer a 'fixed' direct debit discount, this is normally done in the form of offering a lower standing charge.

For instance, E.ON offer a £70 'fixed' direct debit discount - by differentiating the standing charge between those who pay by fixed monthly direct debit and those who choose to pay via cash/cheque.

Another, smaller 'not for dividend' energy firm that I know offers a £25 per fuel, per year discount (again through a lower daily standing charge) for paying by direct debit.

If you look at the tariff terms and conditions for all Sainsbury's Energy's three available tariffs, you'll find that the only tariff that is not a 'Dual Fuel, Direct Debit only tariff' under important information, is Standard, at this moment in time

In regards to finding economy seven timings, I'm confident that the information is correct there, although naturally, I could stand to be corrected. But, for years, I've helped 100's of customers find there economy seven timings by using the time pattern regimes of meters, which can be found in the dataflows (D149, D150?)

Not sure if, perhaps my bad English (second language), has caused this confusion. Apologies for this.