Redundancy and how it works?

MrINeedOfHelp

Hi all,

So as of 07/11/16 the CEO announced our office would be no more by May 2017 as they are moving to another location.

And because of that move three particular teams would be at the risk of redundancy, to which 1 of the teams is one I belong to.

Today I started at 1pm so missed the first collective consultation meeting for my team from which I understand they went over the basics of nominating a rep for the team and individual consultation would begin in some time in December, all this is from word of mouth though from other colleagues in attendance.

I've now been told I'll have a chat with our head of department just to go over what was discussed.

But is it their responsibility to pass on the info, should I not at least be given my own individual meeting with those conducting the consultation?

Also in terms of the company putting together a selection criteria matrix on how they mark employees against a score etc.. would it be fair to pool together people that do separate jobs? e.g pooling in a customer service agent together with management?

If you need more details please ask, thought it best I keep this OP short for now.

sangie595

Why do you think that you are entitled to an individual consultation when everyone else is still having collective ones? You missed the meeting, so of course people are going to tell you what happened. And you have been told that you will have a meeting with your manager. So you are going to be personally informed of what had been said by management. What is your complaint?

You do realise that the employer is not, at this stage required to have personal briefings, and some of the responsibility here lies with you - just because a collective meeting happens outside your own personal working hours doesn't simply mean they must organise around you. You may have to attend some of the meetings outside your own hours if you want to know what is going on.

If people are capable of doing the various jobs on offer in the future, then yes, the pool could be a mix of job roles

MrINeedOfHelp

sangie595 wrote: »

Why do you think that you are entitled to an individual consultation when everyone else is still having collective ones? You missed the meeting, so of course people are going to tell you what happened. And you have been told that you will have a meeting with your manager. So you are going to be personally informed of what had been said by management. What is your complaint?

You do realise that the employer is not, at this stage required to have personal briefings, and some of the responsibility here lies with you - just because a collective meeting happens outside your own personal working hours doesn't simply mean they must organise around you. You may have to attend some of the meetings outside your own hours if you want to know what is going on.

If people are capable of doing the various jobs on offer in the future, then yes, the pool could be a mix of job roles

Looks like I got today's team meeting wrong, doesn't seem to have been the first collective meeting, from the sounds of things it was just a meeting to explain nothing other then when the first collective meeting will take place and that there is a deadline of the 14/11 to elect a rep for the team.

Also if the scoring system is meant to be fair and comparable from colleague to colleague in terms of how they mark people and then choose those for redundancy I'm not sure I get your last point, for example we have product owners for the department, team manager then team leader, then the execs.

All these roles have differing job specs, so whilst they are part of the same department we all do different roles each with different tasks and responsibilities surely then it is unfair to pool these roles in together as what is stopping those higher in the chain of command beating all the lower grade execs, just because of experience, duties and other markers, surely this puts the execs at a disadvantage as their day to day performance is being marked against those in a higher position with more responsibilities which would make easier to outscore on top of the fact the work carried out is not comparable? arguably the only thing that can be compared is just attendance.

EDIT: I understand the roles don't have to be identical but at least similar but in the same point what the managers do is not similar to what I do, nor is what the Product Manager do similar to what I do.

asajj

If company had a grade system, it would be very unlikely for them to match let's say grade 1 (most junior) to a grade 3 role (most senior) and vice versa. If there is a sales team member and a manager, surely a manager wouldn't accept becoming a member as it would be a demotion for the person. To sum up, highly unlikely that execs will compete against the junior member of staff.

sangie595

But, to be clear, there is no reason why they cannot. The days when a "demotion" was considered an unacceptable alternative employment are long gone. The fact that someone does a different kind of job to you does not mean they are incapable of doing your job. But the consultation is just starting and the consultation is about discussing all these matters.

MrINeedOfHelp

Hi all,

So I was given the chance to ask some questions over the stipulations over the terms of the redundancy and I think most things have been cleared up so thanks for the help in getting my head round things.

Got one last question about something that was raised today, so because a lot of the office have been employed for less then two years means obviously in terms of the statutory redundancy we wouldn't be entitled to anything.

So instead what they are planning on doing, with I guess the emphasis really being on the "planning" part is paying those employed for less then year in the way of PILON, Payment in Lieu of notice.

Now like I say since this is something they are planning it may change, however should it stick and be the method the company take, as this is not a clause stated in any way in our contract, is this then a form of breach of contract and therefore untaxed or taxed monies?

Thanks again

Alter_ego

Employed for less than 2 yrs no need to make you redundant. They can simply dismiss you, without giving a reason.

sangie595

Redundancy payments do not attract to people with less than two years service, and untaxed payments only attach to people made redundant. For less than two years this is simply a dismissal and no untaxed payments accrue. So PILON would be taxable.

Do not assume that people with less than two years service will simply be dispensed with. It can happen that way, but it's a poor employer who doesn't bite the bullet and retain the services of their best staff rather than simply their longest serving.

MrINeedOfHelp

sangie595 wrote: »

Redundancy payments do not attract to people with less than two years service, and untaxed payments only attach to people made redundant. For less than two years this is simply a dismissal and no untaxed payments accrue. So PILON would be taxable.

Do not assume that people with less than two years service will simply be dispensed with. It can happen that way, but it's a poor employer who doesn't bite the bullet and retain the services of their best staff rather than simply their longest serving.

So even if PILON is not actually stated anywhere in someones contract it is still taxable?

sangie595

Yes it is. The only circumstances it is not taxed is where it forms part of a redundancy settlement, and with less than two years employment, it cannot.

MrINeedOfHelp

Thanks for the advice so far.

Quick question, is there anything against bringing a trade rep (albeit I'm not part of one) or a fellow colleague along to a 1 to 1 consultation.

Collective group has finished and 1-2-1 are due to begin next week, so was wondering if it's ok to bring a plus 1 for lack of better term.