Boomers Pension Gravy Train Finally To Be Derailed

ukcarper

Cornucopia wrote: »

Since those people here who are pushing the Boomer-bashing agenda (and pushing it hard) clearly have left-wing credentials, I doubt that they have been inspired by a Tory politician.

Even if they have, there is way more momentum behind this than Willetts could ever muster. It can only be a thing of the Left. Ultimately taken from the Right, maybe. I guess that shows how messed-up it is.

Not sure what does inspires rugged's boomer bashing but I don't think it's the left wing.

ruggedtoast

Boomers are not being bashed. They are being scrutinised.

Clearly, they do not like it.

ruggedtoast

Wild_Rover wrote: »

Well, thankfully, you are not me and I get to decide what questions I ask. I know that the lefties don't like answering questions as doing so simply reveals the paucity of their "arguments", but this IS a discussion forum.

The fact that you decline every opportunity to answer questions indicates that you are not really competent to engage in serious debate, so until you have the guts to answer them you'll be thankful that you'll hear no more from me, unless your drivel reaches a such a level that it can't be igored.

WR

I want your bus pass you don't want, your tv license you don't need, your winter fuel payment that you shouldn't have, and your next year's increment you haven't funded.

And there are plenty who feel the same as I do.

On top of that I recommend a 0% personal tax allowance for anyone who claims a state pension and earns one penny over and above It from any other means. All else of which should be taxed at 47%.

Linton

steampowered wrote: »

There are literally hundreds of sources I could link you to. A simple search on google for something like "boomer benefits vs taxes" would give you all you need.

I personally like this one, as it is a politically neutral economic analysis: http://www.niesr.ac.uk/sites/default/files/publications/dp377.pdf.

This is a detailed, neutral study by the National Institute of Economic and Social Research which analysed at intergenerational accounts in the United Kingdom. It is well worth a read for people on both sides of the debate.

A few choice extracts below:


This all means:
- Boomers will receive from the state £6.81 trillion more than they paid in taxes.
- Taxes would need to raise by 15.4% to state spending on boomers without having a net impact on the national debt.
- Taxes would need to raise by 17.1% to enable future generations to receive the same level of state support/pension/healthcare etc. given to boomers.

I know you didn't like this sort of thing earlier in the thread because there are estimates involved. But I would encourage you to have a skim of the paper. Obviously there are some estimates involved, but it is based on pretty solid data.

Despite having a good mathematical education I cant understand it and I suspect that most if not all the commentators on the matter dont understand it either. And the chances of it actually saying what the headlines say it says must be pretty small.

One particular point...

Look at Table 2 which is the basis of the assertion that people aged 40+ have done unfairly well out of the system. Apparently someone aged 50 is credited with paying a bit over 1/3 of the income tax of someone born today, presumably over their lifetime. Really???? What would the % tax rate have been if the figures were to be equal?

Cornucopia

At last, some demands.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I want your bus pass you don't want...

Pensioners bus passes only work because the majority rarely use them, and they often have restrictions on them. If you had one, you'd use it to get to work every day, and it would start costing proper money.

your tv license you don't need...

The "free" one? The one for over-75s? The ones who aren't Boomers?

[Deleted User]

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I want your bus pass you don't want, your tv license you don't need, your winter fuel payment that you shouldn't have, and your next year's increment you haven't funded.

And there are plenty who feel the same as I do.

On top of that I recommend a 0% personal tax allowance for anyone who claims a state pension and earns one penny over and above It from any other means. All else of which should be taxed at 47%.

As I'm in my 50s I have none of these! :rotfl: (Except the 1% rise in my pension next April). Please, though, don't let the facts get in the way of your inane ramblings! I mentioned that I'd come back if you excelled yourself in raving, I just didn't expect it so soon :j .

Still, nice to see some stats coming through at last .... What's this gibberish about a 47% tax rate?

Are you sure? On ALL other income from "any other means"? Really? "ALL"? Or is it only on earnings? What about dividends? Savings interest? Private pensions? Do you want that tax rate applied to ALL non-state pensions too? Does that include the public sector pensions that many of the Corbyn faithful have? (I get a public sector pension, but I think Corbyn is a clown, by the by!) You want to see ex-NHS cleaners pay a 47% tax rate on their superannuation pensions? And teachers? Classroom assistants? Nurses?

Just wondering - have you told all the public sector employees, past and present, that this is your plan? You ARE trying to ATTRACT their votes, right :rotfl: ?

Sorry, I don't have an appropriate smiley for this - so :rotfl: will have to do.

Keep this comedy gold coming, but first, just clarify what is to be hit by this 47% tax rate - I think we are entitled to know! That's if you have the slightest idea WHAT you mean, which I have to say each of your posts casts further doubt upon!

WR

ruggedtoast

Wild_Rover wrote: »

As I'm in my 50s I have none of these! :rotfl: (Except the 1% rise in my pension next April). Please, though, don't let the facts get in the way of your inane ramblings! I mentioned that I'd come back if you excelled yourself in raving, I just didn't expect it so soon :j .

Still, nice to see some stats coming through at last .... What's this gibberish about a 47% tax rate?

Are you sure? On ALL other income from "any other means"? Really? "ALL"? Or is it only on earnings? What about dividends? Savings interest? Private pensions? Do you want that tax rate applied to ALL non-state pensions too? Does that include the public sector pensions that many of the Corbyn faithful have? (I get a public sector pension, but I think Corbyn is a clown, by the by!) You want to see ex-NHS cleaners pay a 47% tax rate on their superannuation pensions? And teachers? Classroom assistants? Nurses?

Just wondering - have you told all the public sector employees, past and present, that this is your plan? You ARE trying to ATTRACT their votes, right :rotfl: ?

Sorry, I don't have an appropriate smiley for this - so :rotfl: will have to do.

Keep this comedy gold coming, but first, just clarify what is to be hit by this 47% tax rate - I think we are entitled to know! That's if you have the slightest idea WHAT you mean, which I have to say each of your posts casts further doubt upon!

WR

I see, well its all coming out now. A private pension, a state pension, a juicy (probably unfunded) public sector pension, savings, earnings on savings, dividend from shares and income from employment. And a bus pass, tv license, and winter fuel allowance on the way.

This is without even taking into account vast appreciation in housing wealth and probably a buy to let or two that you snatched from some poor young first time buyers and then made them rent from you at a 19% margin.

And yet you have the bald faced cheek to lecture the younger ones on "standing on their own two feet".

Yes, 47% my friend. On the lot. If you claim a state pension.

CLAPTON

Cornucopia wrote: »

There is a tradition (which is, of course, open to criticism) that eulogies for recently-deceased ex-leaders and politicians strike a positive note.

It would be interesting to read Castro's eulogies of Reagan and Thatcher;
but I guess decent traditions will only apply to democratic societies.

[Deleted User]

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I see, well its all coming out now. A private pension, a state pension, a juicy (probably unfunded) public sector pension, savings, earnings on savings, dividend from shares and income from employment. And a bus pass, tv license, and winter fuel allowance on the way.

This is without even taking into account vast appreciation in housing wealth and probably a buy to let or two that you snatched from some poor young first time buyers and then made them rent from you at a 19% margin.

And yet you have the bald faced cheek to lecture the younger ones on "standing on their own two feet".

Yes, 47% my friend. On the lot. If you claim a state pension.

There you have it folks - the utopian socialist dream - work all your days, save up, have a nice house, invest a little and Rugged's brothers will take 47%!

So who do you imagine is going to vote your believers into power?

Not the older, or nearly old. Not those with private pensions, or superannuation pensions, or those who are going to have either of them. Not those with savings. That takes out vast sections of the working population. That leaves you, the unemployed (until they get a job then they join the employed), your mate down the pub and Jeremy Corbyn.

What do you do for a living, by the way? Nothing too specific of course just an indication will do. (Apart form selling "The Socialist Worker", of course, that doesn't count as a job.)

Ah, no, silly of me.....your lot aren't interested in power via democracy, are they? What is it to be? Riots?

WR

Edit - never had a buy to let, and I don't need to work, so I don't. I could if I want to, but as my pension is over the threshold I'd pay the basic rate tax. What do you think the basic rate should be, BTW, you didn't answer that one? When I stared work, we had a basic tax rate and a mortgage rate that would have had you p!ssing your pants!

bobbymotors

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I want your bus pass you don't want, your tv license you don't need, your winter fuel payment that you shouldn't have, and your next year's increment you haven't funded.

And there are plenty who feel the same as I do.

On top of that I recommend a 0% personal tax allowance for anyone who claims a state pension and earns one penny over and above It from any other means. All else of which should be taxed at 47%.

Sounds like a vote winner to me...

Good god, you really are an idiot.

What you fail to realise, every single time, is that people generally want and work for their children and grand children to have a better standard of living than they themselves have.

It's called ambition and aspiration. People WANT to get on in life by working hard, making a few quid, buying a home, contributing to a pension, having a decent car, etc.

Your proposals would prevent all of these things. There is no point working hard and bettering yourself and in turn your family if you are taxed to the hilt and if there is no benefit in bettering yourself as time goes by.

So no one except you, the unemployed, and recipients of high benefits will ever vote for this claptrap.

But by all means carry on dreaming that they will...we all have our dreams and aspirations...it's pity yours seem to be to drag everyone down to the same socialist level no matter their ability or talents.