Boomers Pension Gravy Train Finally To Be Derailed

lisyloo

Moby_Tide wrote: »

One thing I take issue with is the concept that "gold plated" pensions are rare, or that only large pensions can be gold plated. Large pensions or "fat cat" pensions are indeed rare but there is a much larger number of people with pensions that range from very small to very large that pay out way more than was ever contributed to them even accounting for market forces/investment performance. That is the "gold plating", it isn't what they are worth notionally, it's what they have managed to become worth compared to what was actually paid in. That "gold plating" exists for almost no one currently, certainly for new or existing entrants to schemes.

People can choose to ignore it as a concept but until we get some form of collective schemes across vast swathes of industries/sectors to help normalise the risk and encourage participation occupational pensions especially will continue to fall through the floor. Even if it's a temporary measure for a few decades it would at least change the mindset and help spread the risk

Moby, I do agree that there is an age group that has benefited to varying degrees by mis-calculations in their longevity, but now that they are retired or close to retirement then how can you take this awaupy from them when they were made promises and planned accordingly? many are ordinary folks and not wealthy. My parents contributed to pensions most of their lives (mum worked), have modest homes (maybe £150k) I wouldn't call them wealthy at all.
I have friends in their 50s with final salary pension who've had promised all their lives on what they will receive e.e. Half salary at 60. I don't think you can just take this away from people when they've planned their whole lives and are now too old to do anything about it.
They got a good deal accidentally and it's not their fault.

Just because I'm having to save for myself I don't actually have hate in my heart for people who got a better deal.

I don't have any issue with taxing the wealth, but the wealthier I've got the less tax I've paid. For example I now salary sacrifice 50% of my salary, if I wa poor and needed the money to live off I'd loose 45.8%.
The tax system is nuts.
A man can pay his wife dividends from his business and she can gift him the money pay tax free - that's nuts.

No problem with taxing the wealthy. Most working class boomers I know are not wealthy and some are poor - especially if they got divorced.

mwpt

lisyloo wrote: »

Moby, I do agree that there is an age group that has benefited to varying degrees by mis-calculations in their longevity, but now that they are retired or close to retirement then how can you take this awaupy from them when they were made promises and planned accordingly? many are ordinary folks and not wealthy. My parents contributed to pensions most of their lives (mum worked), have modest homes (maybe £150k) I wouldn't call them wealthy at all.

...

No problem with taxing the wealthy. Most working class boomers I know are not wealthy and some are poor - especially if they got divorced.

There are many more poor pensioners than their are rich. But those poor pensioners, like the old lady sitting in her lounge with her huge coat on that I walk past on the way home from work every day, are scraping by while richer pensioners continue to enjoy the excesses made by miscalculated promises and the younger generation pay for it. I keep hearing that we should tax wealth, but just not rich pensioner wealth. Why not, why can't they assist to make sure their poorer counterparts are not having to sit without heating?

Herzlos

mwpt wrote: »

I keep hearing that we should tax wealth, but just not rich pensioner wealth. Why not, why can't they assist to make sure their poorer counterparts are not having to sit without heating?

Because taxing wealth is a regressive system; unless you're generating wealth it'll cost you dearly.

Take a pensioner, who's finally paid off a mortgage, but is just scraping by. If you tax them on the value of their home (be it £1m, or £100k), then you're forcing them to sell the home and take a huge financial hit and upheaval just to pay the tax, right down to the point that they are renting a hovel.


If you were to just group all incomes (pension, dividends, capital gains) together, and handle that with a single tax band system, then that'd be fairer.

Bear in mind that a lot of "wealthy" pensioners are already paying income tax on their pension, just no NI contributions.

ruggedtoast

ukcarper wrote: »

Why should I bail people out who don't work or have children they can't afford.

You don't. As a boomer we are all supporting you. And will be paying off your borrowing for decades to come.

mwpt

Herzlos wrote: »

Because taxing wealth is a regressive system; unless you're generating wealth it'll cost you dearly.

Take a pensioner, who's finally paid off a mortgage, but is just scraping by. If you tax them on the value of their home (be it £1m, or £100k), then you're forcing them to sell the home and take a huge financial hit and upheaval just to pay the tax, right down to the point that they are renting a hovel.


If you were to just group all incomes (pension, dividends, capital gains) together, and handle that with a single tax band system, then that'd be fairer.

Bear in mind that a lot of "wealthy" pensioners are already paying income tax on their pension, just no NI contributions.

I feel you've missed my point. I wasn't clear enough, apologies.

borkid

mwpt wrote: »

There are many more poor pensioners than their are rich. But those poor pensioners, like the old lady sitting in her lounge with her huge coat on that I walk past on the way home from work every day, are scraping by while richer pensioners continue to enjoy the excesses made by miscalculated promises and the younger generation pay for it. I keep hearing that we should tax wealth, but just not rich pensioner wealth. Why not, why can't they assist to make sure their poorer counterparts are not having to sit without heating?

Pensioners pay tax at the same rate as working folk unless they are over 75 ( I think) in which case their personal allowance is higher but I think this is being brought into line with others.

The parts of this I have read go on about how much pensioners have benefitted in the past but few, if any, mention younger people getting CTC and WTC which weren't around when I was bringing up my children, at the time we had less coming in than a pensioner couple so we weren't rich.

ruggedtoast

lisyloo wrote: »

Most pensioners have lived through times where they wouldn't have had any disposable income to save or enough food to eat. They have not had throw WHOLE lives to save, some of it yes, but any who lived through the 1920's, 30s and 40s would not have had disposable incomes or have heard of concepts like savings, pensions, longevity etc.
There is a small section of boomers who have been spoilt for example long serving police officers who could retire at 50, but many pensioners would have done national service and suffered hardships and times when the larder was literally empty.
I'm not sure what circles you move in, but many of today's pensioners are not well off at all although there are a section with gold plated salary pensions.
I'd agree that is wrong but it was miscalculated, there's is nothing that can be done about it now and being bitter and twisted is not going to help anyone.

I don't begrudge anyone born in those decades a good standard of living.

They did everything they could for the generation below them. Unfortunately that generation turned out to be the baby boomers. Who did everything they could to shaft the generations below them.

There is plenty the Boomers can do. They can pay their way. Contribute their share, stop voting for Brexits, start voting for wealth redistribution, campaign for housing instead of forming residents groups to block it.

Loanranger

If only the younger folk had bothered to turn out to vote on the Brexit issue then you might not be so bitter.

ruggedtoast

Maz wrote: »

Don't understand your reply but, hey!

OK, if you don't want to be specific, which age group do you fall into?

18-30
31-40
41-50
51+

Thats right, one of those.

Castle

borkid wrote: »

Pensioners pay tax at the same rate as working folk unless they are over 75 ( I think) in which case their personal allowance is higher but I think this is being brought into line with others.

The parts of this I have read go on about how much pensioners have benefitted in the past but few, if any, mention younger people getting CTC and WTC which weren't around when I was bringing up my children, at the time we had less coming in than a pensioner couple so we weren't rich.

The personal allowance is the same for everybody as from 2013/14.

(In the past there was no minimum wage either)