Boomers Pension Gravy Train Finally To Be Derailed

steampowered

ruggedtoast wrote: »

If a party were finally brave enough to campaign on increasing pensioner poverty they would pick up a lot of votes from Millenials and Gen X.

I don't think it is so much about reducing pensioner poverty as a problem with the structure of the taxation and benefits system.

I don't blame pensioners for this, but I really hope that pensioners will have the decency to admit that a situation where the average 65-year old receives £223,183 more in services and benefits from the state than they pay in tax, while the average new-born child is expected to pay £159,668 more in tax, is not fair or sustainable. Source.

I think most millennials are happy to help pensioners in genuine poverty. Pensioners in poverty already receive more generous benefits than working families in poverty.

The problem people have is that a lot of pensioners have become very wealthy, assembled extraordinary property wealth, and yet still receive extremely favourable tax treatment and benefits (such as the state pension) far in excess of what they paid in tax during their working lives.

One way of dealing this would be to increase property taxes, to a level consistent with most other developed countries, while reducing income taxes. That would do the trick. Perhaps pensioners could be given the option to delay payment of property taxes until their property is sold, rather than paid from their pension.

The other point is that people have vastly underfunded their pensions. Pension contributions paid by baby-boomers were set during an age when most people would die shortly after retirement, not live on for another 20/30 years. Babyboomers' pension contributions were totally inadequate to fund the level of pensions they enjoy. The amount people pay into pensions needs to drastically increase or a lot of people are in for a really nasty shock when they retire.

ukcarper

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Wanting someone to be less spoilt isn't necessarily hatred.

You said increase pensioner poverty.

ukcarper

steampowered wrote: »

I don't think it is so much about reducing pensioner poverty as a problem with the structure of the taxation and benefits system.

I don't blame pensioners for this, but I really hope that pensioners will have the decency to admit that a situation where the average 65-year old receives £223,183 more in services and benefits from the state than they pay in tax, while the average new-born child is expected to pay £159,668 more in tax, is not fair or sustainable. Source.

I think most millennials are happy to help pensioners in genuine poverty. Pensioners in poverty already receive more generous benefits than working families in poverty.

The problem people have is that a lot of pensioners have become very wealthy, assembled extraordinary property wealth, and yet still receive extremely favourable tax treatment and benefits (such as the state pension) far in excess of what they paid in tax during their working lives.

One way of dealing this would be to increase property taxes, to a level consistent with most other developed countries, while reducing income taxes. That would do the trick. Perhaps pensioners could be given the option to delay payment of property taxes until their property is sold, rather than paid from their pension.

The other point is that people have vastly underfunded their pensions. Pension contributions paid by baby-boomers were set during an age when most people would die shortly after retirement, not live on for another 20/30 years. Babyboomers' pension contributions were totally inadequate to fund the level of pensions they enjoy. The amount people pay into pensions needs to drastically increase or a lot of people are in for a really nasty shock when they retire.

Have you got the figures to back up your claim I don't mean a newspaper article.

antrobus

steampowered wrote: »

... One way of dealing this would be to increase property taxes, to a level consistent with most other developed countries, while reducing income taxes. That would do the trick. Perhaps pensioners could be given the option to delay payment of property taxes until their property is sold, rather than paid from their pension....

You may need to rethink your cunning plan. Eurostat data shows that taxes on property in the UK amounted to 4.1% of GDP in 2012. That's more than any other country in the EEA 28.


http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/economic-analysis-taxation/data-taxation_en


And the other point to make would that it's not only pensioners that pay property taxes.

steampowered wrote: »

... The other point is that people have vastly underfunded their pensions. Pension contributions paid by baby-boomers were set during an age when most people would die shortly after retirement, not live on for another 20/30 years.... .

It wasn't like that in the 1990s. Private sector defined benefit schemes had surpluses. I recall the Major government introducing measures to stop companies from squireling away too much money.


https://worksmart.org.uk/pension-advice/workplace-pensions/how-schemes-are-run/what-pension-fund-surplus-what-contributions



It was that 'economic genius' Brown who decided to tax pension funds. And thus almost private sector defined benefit scheme is in deficit and closed to new entrants.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/10798785/True-cost-of-Labours-pension-tax-raid-and-others-since-Seventies.html

steampowered wrote: »

...Babyboomers' pension contributions were totally inadequate to fund the level of pensions they enjoy. The amount people pay into pensions needs to drastically increase or a lot of people are in for a really nasty shock when they retire.

Doesn't really help. The money has to come from somewhere.

ruggedtoast

steampowered wrote: »

I don't think it is so much about reducing pensioner poverty as a problem with the structure of the taxation and benefits system.

I don't blame pensioners for this, but I really hope that pensioners will have the decency to admit that a situation where the average 65-year old receives £223,183 more in services and benefits from the state than they pay in tax, while the average new-born child is expected to pay £159,668 more in tax, is not fair or sustainable. Source.

I think most millennials are happy to help pensioners in genuine poverty. Pensioners in poverty already receive more generous benefits than working families in poverty.

The problem people have is that a lot of pensioners have become very wealthy, assembled extraordinary property wealth, and yet still receive extremely favourable tax treatment and benefits (such as the state pension) far in excess of what they paid in tax during their working lives.

One way of dealing this would be to increase property taxes, to a level consistent with most other developed countries, while reducing income taxes. That would do the trick. Perhaps pensioners could be given the option to delay payment of property taxes until their property is sold, rather than paid from their pension.

The other point is that people have vastly underfunded their pensions. Pension contributions paid by baby-boomers were set during an age when most people would die shortly after retirement, not live on for another 20/30 years. Babyboomers' pension contributions were totally inadequate to fund the level of pensions they enjoy. The amount people pay into pensions needs to drastically increase or a lot of people are in for a really nasty shock when they retire.

I said increasing it. Increasing.

ruggedtoast

ukcarper wrote: »

You said increase pensioner poverty.

Yes. Why should just younger people live in poverty and then retire in poverty?

An increase in pensioner poverty would reduce poverty in others.

Pensioners had their whole lives to save. Why are they poor?

F3cklessness. Why do I have to bail them out now when I wont get a state pension myself?

ukcarper

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Yes. Why should just younger people live in poverty and then retire in poverty?

An increase in pensioner poverty would reduce poverty in others.

Pensioners had their whole lives to save. Why are they poor?

F3cklessness. Why do I have to bail them out now when I wont get a state pension myself?

Why should I bail people out who don't work or have children they can't afford.

Maz

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Old enough to know better.

Don't understand your reply but, hey!

OK, if you don't want to be specific, which age group do you fall into?

18-30
31-40
41-50
51+

lisyloo

Pensioners had their whole lives to save. Why are they poor?

Most pensioners have lived through times where they wouldn't have had any disposable income to save or enough food to eat. They have not had throw WHOLE lives to save, some of it yes, but any who lived through the 1920's, 30s and 40s would not have had disposable incomes or have heard of concepts like savings, pensions, longevity etc.
There is a small section of boomers who have been spoilt for example long serving police officers who could retire at 50, but many pensioners would have done national service and suffered hardships and times when the larder was literally empty.
I'm not sure what circles you move in, but many of today's pensioners are not well off at all although there are a section with gold plated salary pensions.
I'd agree that is wrong but it was miscalculated, there's is nothing that can be done about it now and being bitter and twisted is not going to help anyone.

ukcarper

lisyloo wrote: »

Most pensioners have lived through times where they wouldn't have had any disposable income to save or enough food to eat. They have not had throw WHOLE lives to save, some of it yes, but any who lived through the 1920's, 30s and 40s would not have had disposable incomes or have heard of concepts like savings, pensions, longevity etc.
There is a small section of boomers who have been spoilt for example long serving police officers who could retire at 50, but many pensioners would have done national service and suffered hardships and times when the larder was literally empty.
I'm not sure what circles you move in, but many of today's pensioners are not well off at all although there are a section with gold plated salary pensions.
I'd agree that is wrong but it was miscalculated, there's is nothing that can be done about it now and being bitter and twisted is not going to help anyone.

According to age UK there are 1.6million pensioners in poverty and according to BBC nearly 1million of those are over 75.