PCM Ticket whilst parked outside a friends house visiting, do i pay?

infernouk

Hey all,

Here are my notes for the court room, I think its comprehensive in terms of defence talking points?

Rights of Audience:
Does their rep have right to represent?

Contract of Parking Operation Date/Signature:
Signed 2004, laws created in 2012, Signee not at company anymore
AOS came into existence in 2012 after the Protection of Freedoms Act
No right ‘to issue proceedings’ in the contract VCS v Ibbotson

Primacy of Lease:
Peaceful enjoyment of area, no mention of scheme when signed
as was found by a Senior Circuit Judge, Charles Harris QC, in June 2016

Permit letter doesn’t constitute a contract:
No signature, no record of who removed the permit, no coverage of guests
Olley v Marlborough Court Ltd![1949] 1 KB 532 (CA)
The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations!2013
European Law Directive 2011/83/EU
Spurling v Bradshaw![1956] 1 WLR 461’Red Hand Rule’

Signage is prohibitive:
Doesn’t offer parking terms under any situation
PCM (UK) v Christopher Bull
UK Parking Control Ltd v Sean Masterson [2016] B6QZ4H3R
ES Parking Enforcement v Ms A [2016] C8GF4C12

No grace period stated / no consideration for visitation / drop off:
Unrealistic and vague rules around drop offs / permit handovers etc
Jopson v Homeguard
IPC Code of Conduct’s “Grace Periods”: “15.1
Excel v Mr Cutts [2011] 1SE02795
binding a motorist to a contractual agreement without a grace period would constitute a breach of Schedule 2(i), The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999: “(i)

[Deleted User]

AOS came into force in 2007.

The document you have should not be referred to as the contract, because it is not. It is a memorandum that there was a contract in 2004. Insofar as it has been signed, we know not when, but can say because if the AOS point that it cannot reflect the terms of the original contract. It is missing terms.

Are Bovis Homes still the landowner of the area in which you parked? If not, then the contract would have ended in any event.

infernouk

Johnersh wrote: »

AOS came into force in 2007.

The document you have should not be referred to as the contract, because it is not. It is a memorandum that there was a contract in 2004. Insofar as it has been signed, we know not when, but can say because if the AOS point that it cannot reflect the terms of the original contract. It is missing terms.

Are Bovis Homes still the landowner of the area in which you parked? If not, then the contract would have ended in any event.

Sorry thats my misunderstanding, they never replied to my email on that point either.

Im not sure how to check the landowner for the current land? How can i achieve that

Fruitcake

infernouk wrote: »

Sorry thats my misunderstanding, they never replied to my email on that point either.

Im not sure how to check the landowner for the current land? How can i achieve that

A Land Registry check costs a few quid, but I don't know how quick it is.

infernouk

Fruitcake wrote: »

A Land Registry check costs a few quid, but I don't know how quick it is.

thanks, any idea if i can retrospectively add this to my costs if i win?

Fruitcake

infernouk wrote: »

thanks, any idea if i can retrospectively add this to my costs if i win?

I have no idea, but you won't get it if you don't ask. Get receipts for everything and send your schedule of costs a couple of days before the case is heard.
Take all your proof of costs with you on the day, and make sure that it is mentioned in your notebook.

infernouk

Fruitcake wrote: »

I have no idea, but you won't get it if you don't ask. Get receipts for everything and send your schedule of costs a couple of days before the case is heard.
Take all your proof of costs with you on the day, and make sure that it is mentioned in your notebook.

ok i bought it, it makes some reference to bovis if you search the doc?

seems they transferred rights to the landlord but that wont count for the roads in the area, so i assume those are still under their control? not sure how to verify...

Also the parking space it refers to in the doc wasn’t the one I was in, that one had a random car left in I for 3 months because private spaces aren’t policed so people steal them

full document here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/yts5rrnm5zf68m8/RegisterHD469681.pdf?dl=0

[Deleted User]

That's your mate's house isn't it? I don't think you were in their allocated parking spot, so ideally we need the title to the street, assuming Bovis retained that or someone else now holds it.

Of interest is the fact that there appears to be no obligations under that transfer for the owner or, for that matter, visitors to display permits (and the purchase post-dates the contract given).

Is there signage at all? The transfer appears to restrict the display of signs too !

infernouk

It’s for the house yes, and no as mentioned i was on the street outside the door, our private space is taken over by some local students as no one can stop them and the permit scheme has led to wide spread private space hijacking. I’m not sure how I’d get one for a street as you can only search house number specific...

There are signs yes on the street lamps occasionally, and no theres again, no mention of the scheme, though if you search parking it has some bits about not using community areas or something, but i think it means like parks. Signs are on lamps on land i assume belongs to Bovis if it was never transferred (again we cant get the documents) so i guess they dont need it in any land contracts as these are for properties

So can I deduce anything useful from this? Or not without a street document? Which I can’t get

[Deleted User]

Bovis do indeed own the land as it was intended to become adopted highway, but appears never to have been adopted by Herfordshire Council / Highways.

Nevertheless, I still don't believe the contract document provided is good enough. Of further interest (and what I have learnt from the documents obtained) is the fact that the road and houses did not, I believe, exist in 2004 (the title your friend has emanates from the developer in 2006/7). As such, it is hard to see that the land referred to in 2004 can possibly have conveyed any obligation to enforce parking or confer an entitlement over roadways that were created after that date, particularly where the information regarding the land/description is so limited.