Premier Park - paid ticket still given PCN

CreamTeas

Dear All

I would welcome any comments, suggestions or observation on my tale of woe with regards to parking on private land controlled by Premier Park Ltd.

Back in September I hired a car from Enterprise, to move my daughter down to Torbay - she has a ten month university placement for the third year of her course.

In the evening I parked in the Marina Car Park. I paid with my credit card, for two hours.
We left after 1 hour 44 minutes.

Weeks later I got sent, via Enterprise, a photocopy of the front of a PCN from Premier Park stating that it was issued because 'Parking Session Expired or Unpaid' (sent to Enterprise as the registered keeper - they were in the process of sending back my details to Premier Park).

I stupidly thought there had been a simple mistake (and not researching this company), rather than waiting for the PCN to be redirected and addressed to me I filled in their online appeal, attached a screen shot of my credit card showing the correct amount of money paid, date etc.

I was shocked that two days later they sent me an email rejecting the appeal. No reason was given. Popla number supplied.

I immediately sent them another email asking for the reason for the denial - as I had proof of correct payment. I also asked for the evidence to support the denial together with evidence that the ticket machine was served and working correctly, the same for the lighting too. (I remembered the lighting wasn't great).

They replied that the PCN was issued correctly (again with no explanation) and that they would not answer or communicate with me further. No other request answered.

I am aware that others have fallen foul of entering zero instead of ‘O’s or I instead of ‘1’s – however unjust and unfair it is they get away under the ‘Terms and Conditions’ and still charge and get the £60/£100 fine. I can only assume I made the same mistake (although I don’t know for sure as they won’t’ tell me).

I have subsequently written them regardless, an email pointing out that I have only received the front page of the ticket so any other relevant information on the rear I am not privy too. Again I asked for proof/evidence of the offence. As I haven’t received directly the ticket I didn’t think they had followed BPA codes of practice. I asked for the landowner’s details and proof of their authority to act for them.

To date I have heard nothing.

I only have another 3 days in which to start instigating a Popla appeal. Supposing I did enter a wrong digit Popla would side with Premier and I would have to pay £100. I can hardly afford the £60. I fear that I will end up doing what so many others have done – taking a pragmatic view, believing that Popla are ineffective and would side with Premier (those pesky Terms and Conditions) and pay the £60 even though it is so wrong.

I’ve looked through Codes of Practice and Popla appeals criteria and my situation isn’t covered.

Without the full knowledge of why the ticket was issued I can’t decide whether I have a chance of appeal – I am so frightened that this will escalate and I will end up paying much more.

As I said I’d welcome others knowledge on this whole rotten minefield of private car parks.

Many thanks



Ps I have been in touch with the local MP as he is trying to collate issue with this car park. To speak with Trading Standards you have to go through CAB - they said it's down to Terms and Conditions on private land.

Ralph-y

Hi and welcome to the forum ........

we all ways recommend not to waste a POPLA appeal .....

if you look through the POPLA appeals thread

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/71536929#Comment_71536929

and scroll back a week or two then you will find some templates done by CM , they are proving to be successful ...

"They replied that the PCN was issued correctly (again with no explanation) and that they would not answer or communicate with me further. No other request answered."

that's because they lie and are only interested in your £££ , they hope to scare / bully you into paying up!

do not fall for it ...

post your first attempt up here for forum members to see ...

good luck

Ralph:cool:

CreamTeas

Dear Ralph-y


Thank you for your reply - I will go, at haste and scroll


Many thanks

pogofish

CreamTeas wrote: »

I’ve looked through Codes of Practice and Popla appeals criteria and my situation isn’t covered.

Your situation means nothing at all to them - All they want is your money and any appeal based on actual fact is near-certain to fail.

As well as reading the POPLA appeals thread, you do need to inform yourself properly about the BBC biz and whoat does work - The Newbies Sticky at the top of this forum covers this and the best approaches to challenge them.

Coupon-mad

I only have another 3 days in which to start instigating a Popla appeal.

You actually have all week - weekend included, probably - because POPLA codes last a few days longer than the 28, certainly 30 days is FINE. HONESTLY!

When you submitted your credit card proof, did you admit who was driving? Are you SURE you did or didn't (this is important for us to know).

You can use the template POPLA appeals shown as posted by me in late September in 'POPLA Decisions'. And/or search this board for 'Premier POPLA' and read recent ones drafted by others, there are LOADS. In minutes you will have several at your fingertips to plagiarise. Don't read older ones, not older than this Summer and DO NOT copy any appeal point moaning about the charge not being related to the 'loss'. That point is a loss now so do not use it!

Show us your draft POPLA appeal, once you've found the templates in 'POPLA Decisions' that I posted in September, and once you've seen a few PP examples already crafted.

CreamTeas

Dear Coupon-mad


Thank you for your reply - I have been wading through lots of threads, completely bamboozled !


Unfortunately, (I did not know then what I know now) identified myself as the driver. It was a hire car with only myself as the authorised driver - it would be hard not too..... and of course I thought it was a simple mistakenly issued ticket - a costly mistake which is probably my undoing.


I have thought to appeal on the grounds that the Marina car park is subject to the Harbour Byelaws and therefore any application under the Pof A wouldn't have applied - 'relevant land'. Particularly as they have not furnished details of authorisation.


Looking through so many threads I see that many wins through Popla are because the carpark management companies off no evidence - Premier Park Ltd doesn't appear to be one of those. They appear to fight vigorously - even though they appear to be morally corrupt.


I will look for the templates in your post in September -


Many thanks indeed and a big apology - I did say I was the driver !

Coupon-mad

I have thought to appeal on the grounds that the Marina car park is subject to the Harbour Byelaws and therefore any application under the Pof A wouldn't have applied - 'relevant land'.

You can't use the POFA or 'not relevant land' if you said who was driving. The POFA protects keepers, not drivers. Wish you had come here sooner - a 'Hirer' appellant has a perfect winning POPLA appeal point that you now do not have because you came out as driver, not 'hirer'.

Never fear, use the template appeal points and show us your draft.

Not 'no keeper liability' but yes to 'no landowner authority' and 'unclear signs' (the long templates from POPLA Decisions!) and a section that the contravention did not occur: 'Parking Session Expired or Unpaid' was not true because it was neither expired nor unpaid (and prove it to POPLA). There was a POPLA case won on that basis last week or the week before v Premier Park! POPLA spotted for themselves that the PCN was not properly issued because the ticket was - as a fact - neither expired nor unpaid.

CreamTeas

Just by goggling the Marina car park I found the landlords/owners. I assumed they employed Premier Park to manage on their behalf.
I spoke to a lovely lady in the office. At first she said they normally refer people onto Premiers customer service telephone number. I explained that Premier had told me that they would not communicate further with me - all I was trying to establish was who is the land owner/landlord.
I think because I have proof of purchased ticket, which is being ignored rather than mitigating circumstance she asked me to send her an email, briefly outlying the circumstance and proof of the credit card payment.
I said I felt that the landowners should know what had happened in their name.
I received an email back -

"Unfortunately as the car park is managed by an outside company we do not have much control over it any more.
I have however put an email request in to have your PCN cancelled and as soon as I hear anything I will let you know.
Hope this helps"

Which would be wonderful won't it.
I'm going to wait for a few days just to see if I hear anything but I'm wondering whether to put in a Popla appeal incase based on the fact that Premier do not have the authority to implement the ticket anymore and thus the fine etc etc etc.

I'll keep you posted......

CreamTeas

THE TICKET HAS BEEN CANCELLED -


I’m so relieved yet remain so angry with regards to Premier Park and the like.
My advice and understanding is (and forgive me I could be wrong) that POPLA can’t forgive a ticket with regards to mitigating circumstance (illness, inserted wrong digit etc.) only on a technical one; such as signage, out of date application for keeper details etc.


I wouldn’t rely on appealing just to the landowner, I would do it in together with all other appeals, but it is worth a try.
My appeal was very straight forward – I could prove I had paid for a ticket. Even so Premier still refused to explain the reason for continuing with it.
It will always be worth contacting the owner/landlords who employ the carpark company.


My advice is making your letter/email succinct – you’ll only get their backs up if they have to wade through reams of stuff – and you want them on your side. Include copies of anything that backs up your claim. I took the tack of one of frustration at the bad practices of the car parking company - which was being done in their, the landowner’s name.
It worked for me - Good Luck to all of you !

Fruitcake

Have you had confirmation from Premier, or from the landowner? It is not cancelled until the parking company say it is cancelled.

If the PPC hasn't cancelled it, you still need to whack in a quick PoPLA appeal.

CreamTeas

Many thanks - I received an email from the landowner which included their initial request for the ticket to be dropped and then the reply from Premier acknowledge it being dropped.

I did send a recorded letter to Premier at the end of last week (together with an email through their appeals page) requesting confirmation of it being cancelled. I informed them that if I didn't hear from them by Wednesday I would, in order to protect myself, proceed with a POPLA appeal.
To date I haven't heard anything - I will put in the appeal if I don't get confirmation from Premier themselves - I don't think they can be trusted!