Challenging a PCN

spring157

Hi there, I've got a PCN for 'entering and stopping in a yellow box junction' but the traffic ahead of me was moving. Can I challenge this? If so, be great to know what to say etc. I did join Pepipoo motorist juctice site but can't login for some reason.

Head_The_Ball

spring157 wrote: »

Hi there, I've got a PCN for 'entering and stopping in a yellow box junction' but the traffic ahead of me was moving. Can I challenge this? If so, be great to know what to say etc. I did join Pepipoo motorist juctice site but can't login for some reason.

Stopping is the key word.

You should only enter the box junction when your exit is clear.

It doesn't really matter what the other traffic ahead of you was doing unless someone reversed or otherwise blocked your anticipated space.

Did you have to stop because the traffic ahead wasn't moving as fast as you expected? That is deemed to be your fault.

I suspect you will have to suck this one up and put it down to experience. Rotten luck as those things can be tricky in heavy traffic.

Try the motoring forum or Pepipoo but I suspect they will say much the same as I have.

pogofish

Pepipoo is definitely the place for this. The forum here generally specialises in private tickets whilst Pepipoo has the best expertise for legit/council matters.

Do read the signup/newbie info there carefully and be prepared to post-up all the info they ask for, incl depersonalised copies of the original ticket/paperwork and any other communication so far. It all matters.

There have been signup problems recently - are you using a Hotmail address? If so, try with something else as these can get blocked.

always_sunny

spring157 wrote: »

Hi there, I've got a PCN for 'entering and stopping in a yellow box junction' but the traffic ahead of me was moving. Can I challenge this? If so, be great to know what to say etc. I did join Pepipoo motorist juctice site but can't login for some reason.

That's what they are called! Why would you enter one if you cannot move out? You would be stopping traffic turning or moving if you get caught! Unless it was extremely faded that was hard to identify how would you challenge it? I knew I should have stopped there but stopped anyway so I won't pay?

steve-L

Head_The_Ball wrote: »

It doesn't really matter what the other traffic ahead of you was doing unless someone reversed or otherwise blocked your anticipated space.

Yes it does.
Read the relevant act.
The traffic must be stopped when you ENTER the box junction for it to be an offence...

This requires them to prove the traffic was actually stopped which really means VIDEO (or a lot of stills taken fractions of seconds apart)

Essentially, unless they have video evidence that the traffic was stopped (not moving 1mph but stopped) then they are chancing.

You should get a link in the PCN.... if the link doesn't show the traffic was actually stopped at the exact moment your front wheel touched the yellow box then you simply say the traffic wasn't stationary when you entered.

VfM4meplse

steve-L wrote: »

Yes it does.
Read the relevant act.
The traffic must be stopped when you ENTER the box junction for it to be an offence...

This requires them to prove the traffic was actually stopped which really means VIDEO (or a lot of stills taken fractions of seconds apart)

Essentially, unless they have video evidence that the traffic was stopped (not moving 1mph but stopped) then they are chancing.

You should get a link in the PCN.... if the link doesn't show the traffic was actually stopped at the exact moment your front wheel touched the yellow box then you simply say the traffic wasn't stationary when you entered.

Don't underestimate this, btw. One inch over and you're done for.

What makes it harder is if you are driving in an unfamiliar environment in tailgate traffic and the box junction is faded to almost nothing. That's how I got caught some time ago.

steve-L

VfM4meplse wrote: »

Don't underestimate this, btw. One inch over and you're done for.

What makes it harder is if you are driving in an unfamiliar environment in tailgate traffic and the box junction is faded to almost nothing. That's how I got caught some time ago.

It's simple, just read the traffic act.

If the traffic is STATIONARY and your exit is blocked when you ENTER you committed a traffic offence. If the traffic is moving (at whatever speed) then you didn't.

The authority issuing the PCN must prove you committed the offence UNLESS they con you into paying anyway. In most cases they just use intimidation and dishonesty ... as they don't have video or if it shows the traffic was moving they withhold the video and give you a still.

All most need to do is challenge the evidence and ask for proof the traffic was stopped at the exact moment they entered the box junction.

Head_The_Ball

steve-L wrote: »

Yes it does.
Read the relevant act.
The traffic must be stopped when you ENTER the box junction for it to be an offence...

This requires them to prove the traffic was actually stopped which really means VIDEO (or a lot of stills taken fractions of seconds apart)

Essentially, unless they have video evidence that the traffic was stopped (not moving 1mph but stopped) then they are chancing.

You should get a link in the PCN.... if the link doesn't show the traffic was actually stopped at the exact moment your front wheel touched the yellow box then you simply say the traffic wasn't stationary when you entered.

steve-L wrote: »

It's simple, just read the traffic act.

If the traffic is STATIONARY and your exit is blocked when you ENTER you committed a traffic offence. If the traffic is moving (at whatever speed) then you didn't.

The authority issuing the PCN must prove you committed the offence UNLESS they con you into paying anyway. In most cases they just use intimidation and dishonesty ... as they don't have video or if it shows the traffic was moving they withhold the video and give you a still.

All most need to do is challenge the evidence and ask for proof the traffic was stopped at the exact moment they entered the box junction.

Are you certain of all that?

https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=uV6dVqOFDcTPoQfY_qGYBQ&gws_rd=ssl#q=law+on+yellow+box+junctions

https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=uV6dVqOFDcTPoQfY_qGYBQ&gws_rd=ssl#q=highway+code+box+junction

Yellow Box Junction, What The Law Say's
The introduction to the Highway Code states:

Many of the rules in the Code are legal requirements, and if you disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence. You may be fined, given penalty points on your licence or be disqualified from driving. In the most serious cases you may be sent to prison. Such rules are identified by the use of the words ‘MUST/MUST NOT’.

Rule 174 has the words MUST NOT and is therefore a legal requirement.

Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see 'Road markings'). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.

Many people forget the law about box junctions and enter into box junctions without checking to see if they can enter and exit without stopping behind a staionary vehicle at all within the yellow box. If the traffic is moving slowly and you see red brake lights, beware, you could find yourself coming to a stop within the yellow box junction and thereby commiting an offence.

You have auotomatically commited an offence if

1) The exit was not clear when you entered the yellow box junction
2) You entered the yellow box junction and stopped behind a stationary vehicle
3) Part of your vehicle is inside the yellow box junction and your vehicle is stationary

I can find nothing about the traffic ahead being stationary or moving making a difference.

I'm not saying that you are wrong as I am no expert on this but can you please post a link to verify what you claim?

A law constructed that way would be daft as it would offer an easy get out to every motorist caught stopping on a box junction.

steve-L

Head_The_Ball wrote: »

Are you certain of all that?

https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=uV6dVqOFDcTPoQfY_qGYBQ&gws_rd=ssl#q=law+on+yellow+box+junctions

https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=uV6dVqOFDcTPoQfY_qGYBQ&gws_rd=ssl#q=highway+code+box+junction



I can find nothing about the traffic ahead being stationary or moving making a difference.

I'm not saying that you are wrong as I am no expert on this but can you please post a link to verify what you claim?

A law constructed that way would be daft as it would offer an easy get out to every motorist caught stopping on a box junction.

Those 3 points are AND not OR ....
They will try their best to ignore your reasons but ultimately they will have to back down if the junction is not legally marked or they cannot prove the traffic was stationary....

An amazing amount are not legally marked and an amazing amount don't have video....

but the tactic is to intimidate...

Head_The_Ball

steve-L wrote: »

Those 3 points are AND not OR ....
They will try their best to ignore your reasons but ultimately they will have to back down if ......... they cannot prove the traffic was stationary....

An amazing amount are not legally marked and an amazing amount don't have video....

but the tactic is to intimidate...

That is not what the Highway Code and articles in my links appear to state.

trollopscarletwoman

I never got a ticket but I remember once police stopped me turning left with one of those heavy load type vehicles.

I basically got stopped in no mans land.