Final pay overpayment after manager mistake

Floss

Hi,

I'd be grateful for a view on this, and advice on how best to tackle it.

Last month I resigned from a very large national employer, following a period of 3 3/4 months off sick. My monthly wage had just dropped to half pay + SSP. My former line manager has not always adhered to their management responsibilities where communicating with their team, recording of sickness or 1:1 meetings are involved, and yesterday I received a letter stating that because my sickness has not been recorded on the HR system correctly, I have been overpaid wages and underpaid SSP, resulting in a polite request for £176 overpayment to be repaid.

Bearing in mind that this is over 20% of my last salary payment, that the error is not mine (and I have submitted fit notes for ALL of my absence period), and that I am still waiting for my former manager to tell me that I am about to go onto half pay on 1 September as they are required to do, my personal view is "they can whistle".

Obviously I can't contact payroll until tomorrow, but I am mindful to remind them that the reason for my sickness absence was anxiety, due to personal and work-related stress, and that this was supported by the OH professional in their report that poor communication, inconsistency & inequality in management of all team members, and a lack of manager responsibility for their own errors was a large part of the absence triggers.

Would I have a reasonable case to go to Payroll and say "sorry, but I'm not paying for someone else's mistake"?

Bogalot

If you failed to notice the overpayment then you are equally at fault. If you had been underpaid would you have noticed, would you be expecting to be paid the difference?

Irrespective of fault, you need to make an arrangement to pay back what you owe. If you fail to do so they may take you to court, which would incur additional costs on your part.

One thing to note is that you would still accrue holiday pay whilst on sick leave, so make sure this is reflected in their calculation.

sangie595

Floss wrote: »

Hi,

I'd be grateful for a view on this, and advice on how best to tackle it.

Last month I resigned from a very large national employer, following a period of 3 3/4 months off sick. My monthly wage had just dropped to half pay + SSP. My former line manager has not always adhered to their management responsibilities where communicating with their team, recording of sickness or 1:1 meetings are involved, and yesterday I received a letter stating that because my sickness has not been recorded on the HR system correctly, I have been overpaid wages and underpaid SSP, resulting in a polite request for £176 overpayment to be repaid.

Bearing in mind that this is over 20% of my last salary payment, that the error is not mine (and I have submitted fit notes for ALL of my absence period), and that I am still waiting for my former manager to tell me that I am about to go onto half pay on 1 September as they are required to do, my personal view is "they can whistle".

Obviously I can't contact payroll until tomorrow, but I am mindful to remind them that the reason for my sickness absence was anxiety, due to personal and work-related stress, and that this was supported by the OH professional in their report that poor communication, inconsistency & inequality in management of all team members, and a lack of manager responsibility for their own errors was a large part of the absence triggers.

Would I have a reasonable case to go to Payroll and say "sorry, but I'm not paying for someone else's mistake"?

No, you wouldn't. And you also can tell them to "go whistle" all you like. You are required to repay it. So you can politely ask for repayment terms or you can spend your time wondering how long it will take for the debt collectors to recall. 20% extra is a lot of extra pay to not notice (and therefore set aside for repayment) especially when you were clearly expecting the reduction in pay.

shortcrust

Floss wrote: »

Would I have a reasonable case to go to Payroll and say "sorry, but I'm not paying for someone else's mistake"?

If you made a mistake - writing the wrong amount on a cheque for example - and paid someone too much for a piece of work would you think it reasonable if they said "sorry, but I'm not paying for someone else's mistake"? Of course not. You'd be fuming that they were trying to keep money that didn't belong to them.

Regardless, no one is asking you to pay for someone's mistake. That would imply that you're losing something that's belongs to you which isn't the case.

Floss

Bogalot wrote: »

If you failed to notice the overpayment then you are equally at fault. If you had been underpaid would you have noticed, would you be expecting to be paid the difference?
...
One thing to note is that you would still accrue holiday pay whilst on sick leave, so make sure this is reflected in their calculation.

I am not a payroll expert, I had an idea of what to expect after some rough calculations (I actually got less than I had expected) and my final salary payment was made up of holiday pay, SSP and 13 days of salary, so to have noticed an overpayment on a take home of £859 as against a normal month of £1452 would have been a challenge!

Your note about holiday pay is interesting - I have just looked at my last payslip to check that was on there, and it turns out that my 5.25 DAYS holiday pay has been recorded by my former manager as 5.25 HOURS, so I have actually been underpaid. by 34 hours (approx. £400 gross).

Floss

sangie595 wrote: »

... 20% extra is a lot of extra pay to not notice (and therefore set aside for repayment) ...

If I had been overpaid by 20%, then I would have noticed. I received approx. £600 less than a normal month, which was made up of 1/2 pay, SSP and accrued holiday pay. The 20% is of the actual final figure - i.e. the amount allegedly owed is 20% of my final payment, not 20% of my normal wage. I would definitely have noticed that!

sangie595 wrote: »

...you were clearly expecting the reduction in pay.

But I wasn't - I hadn't been told (despite it being a managerial responsibility) until the day my September pay hit my bank account, when I received a letter from Payroll with my payslip, stating "following the verbal notification given to you from your manager, I am writing to confirm that your salary has dropped to 50% w.e.f. 1 September."

Undervalued

Floss wrote: »

I am not a payroll expert, I had an idea of what to expect after some rough calculations (I actually got less than I had expected) and my final salary payment was made up of holiday pay, SSP and 13 days of salary, so to have noticed an overpayment on a take home of £859 as against a normal month of £1452 would have been a challenge!

Sorry, but that does not absolve you of the responsibility.

By all means ask them for a detailed explanation of how your pay was calculated and check it carefully. However assuming you have still been overpaid then they are entitled to have in back promptly.

You have no particular right to "easy payment terms" although most employer will agree to something sensible. Ultimately, if you can't agree and they take you to court, costs will be added and you will be ordered to pay in whatever instalments the judge thinks are reasonable. He may well take the view that a lot of your other "essentials" each month are far less essential than you imagine!

sangie595

Floss wrote: »

If I had been overpaid by 20%, then I would have noticed. I received approx. £600 less than a normal month, which was made up of 1/2 pay, SSP and accrued holiday pay. The 20% is of the actual final figure - i.e. the amount allegedly owed is 20% of my final payment, not 20% of my normal wage. I would definitely have noticed that!



But I wasn't - I hadn't been told (despite it being a managerial responsibility) until the day my September pay hit my bank account, when I received a letter from Payroll with my payslip, stating "following the verbal notification given to you from your manager, I am writing to confirm that your salary has dropped to 50% w.e.f. 1 September."

Actually, it is equally your responsibility to know the terms of your own employment. If you didn't know these, that is no excuse, and no reason to blame your manager. All of which is moot. If you owe money then you must repay it. One way or another. Just as you expect them to pay you if they owe you money. I presume that you do, don't you?

Floss

sangie595 wrote: »

Actually, it is equally your responsibility to know the terms of your own employment. If you didn't know these, that is no excuse, and no reason to blame your manager. All of which is moot. If you owe money then you must repay it. One way or another. Just as you expect them to pay you if they owe you money. I presume that you do, don't you?

I do know the terms of my employment and as a line manger myself I know what my own manager should do, and that she has an obligation to input all information accurately. That hasn't been done, and I guess you didn't actually read my most recent posts - where I said that due to another mistake, I have been underpaid my accrued holiday pay by 34 hours, which turns this around from my debt to them, to their debt to me.

jobbingmusician

Great. So just send them your full calculations of what you are due, and ask them politely if they agree. You might want to double check your holiday pay - I'm sure someone on here would help you check it if you provide all the figures - but if your calculations do indicate that you are owed 5.25 days, then it does look as if your manager might have made an error.

And don't rush to ascribe to malice what can be easily explained by incompetence - it probably really IS just that - an error. It's good that you are coming out with more than expected rather than less.

theoretica

That just reinforces the need to be mistrustful, ready payslips carefully and keep your own calculations. If they hadn't contacted you about the overpayment you might not have noticed the holiday underpayment.