Final pay overpayment after manager mistake

Floss

theoretica wrote: »

That just reinforces the need to be mistrustful, ready payslips carefully and keep your own calculations. If they hadn't contacted you about the overpayment you might not have noticed the holiday underpayment.

TBH I was still suffering panic attacks & anxiety symptoms when the payslip arrived so hadn't actually read it in detail.

The figure of 5.25 has been input as that in hours, rather than a calculation of 5.25 days in hours (39.375). It's easy done if you don't take care when recording data in that system, and when it is someone's pay one should always take care to ensure everything is accurate.

Floss

jobbingmusician wrote: »

Great. So just send them your full calculations of what you are due, and ask them politely if they agree. You might want to double check your holiday pay - I'm sure someone on here would help you check it if you provide all the figures - but if your calculations do indicate that you are owed 5.25 days, then it does look as if your manager might have made an error.

And don't rush to ascribe to malice what can be easily explained by incompetence - it probably really IS just that - an error. It's good that you are coming out with more than expected rather than less.

There is no malice, just no surprise that mistakes had been made by a senior, experienced manager in a very responsible position in the organisation

daytona0

Bogalot wrote: »

If you failed to notice the overpayment then you are equally at fault. If you had been underpaid would you have noticed, would you be expecting to be paid the difference?

Based on the latter posts by OP, I think your question has been comprehensively answered here :P

Witless

Have a look at this case - Avon County Council v Howlett (1983)

There is a defence of common law promissory estoppel (Avon County Council v Howlett (1983) ) to prevent their employer from reclaiming overpaid wages.

To qualify for protection under promissory estoppel the employee must satisfy 3 conditions:

1. That their employer made representations of fact* that entitled them to believe that the sum of money overpaid was theirs;
and
2. That the employee has “changed their position” (by spending some or all of the money) and in doing so acted in good faith and without notice that their employer wished to recoup the overpayment;
and
3. That the employee was not primarily at fault for the mistake

* if the total recorded on your payslip was the same as the credit to your bank presumably

Undervalued

Witless wrote: »

Have a look at this case - Avon County Council v Howlett (1983)

There is a defence of common law promissory estoppel (Avon County Council v Howlett (1983) ) to prevent their employer from reclaiming overpaid wages.

To qualify for protection under promissory estoppel the employee must satisfy 3 conditions:

1. That their employer made representations of fact* that entitled them to believe that the sum of money overpaid was theirs;
and
2. That the employee has “changed their position” (by spending some or all of the money) and in doing so acted in good faith and without notice that their employer wished to recoup the overpayment;
and
3. That the employee was not primarily at fault for the mistake

* if the total recorded on your payslip was the same as the credit to your bank presumably

People love trotting out the incredibly rare instances where "promissory estoppel" has been successfully used in salary overpayment situations.

It is so rare because of point one on your list. Basically they need to have checked their pay and tax carefully, found a discrepancy, queried it repeatedly with the employer and have received erroneous assurances that it was correct.

That test is seldom met and I see nothing to suggest it has been here.

YouAsked

I might have misunderstood, but I thought OP was saying:

*I have been paid the correct amount while off sick
*Subsequently it has emerged that someone didn't update my sickness correctly on the HR system
* This makes it APPEAR I have been overpaid.
*Ex employer now demanding overpayment back
*My holiday pay is lower than it should be.

If I've understood correctly OP, then write it out in a letter like that to your ex-employer. State the dates involved and the actions YOU took that YOU were supposed to. Include your calculation of what you SHOULD have been paid. Then include your stuff about holidays.

If they're asking for money back *that you were entitled to* because someone has incorrectly updated records, then they don't really have much of an argument.

If on the other hand I've misread and their error lead to you being overpaid, then I'm sorry, but you do have to suck it up.

steampowered

How long ago were you off sick?

You could raise the 'estoppel' argument to try and convince your employer to write-off the debt. Have a read of http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/resources/legal_toolkit/legal_advice_from_thompsons_solicitors/pay/salary_overpayments.cfm.

You would be more likely to successful in making this argument if the mistake was made some time ago and you could not have been reasonably expected to notice the mistake. You are unlikely to be successful if it was a mistake you should have noticed by reading your payslip.

People love trotting out the incredibly rare instances where "promissory estoppel" has been successfully used in salary overpayment situations.

It is so rare because of point one on your list. Basically they need to have checked their pay and tax carefully, found a discrepancy, queried it repeatedly with the employer and have received erroneous assurances that it was correct.

You do need to have a clear basis for saying there is an estoppel, but I think it is achievable in a lot of cases. It is something people raise.

Sending a payslip stating a particular salary could be enough to satisfy the 'factual representation' test. If the employee queried any incorrect amount that helps but it isn't a requirement. If the employee could demonstrate that he couldn't have reasonably been expected to see there was a mistake and spent the money in good faith, that could be enough to raise an estoppel.

sangie595

Floss wrote: »

I do know the terms of my employment and as a line manger myself I know what my own manager should do, and that she has an obligation to input all information accurately. That hasn't been done, and I guess you didn't actually read my most recent posts - where I said that due to another mistake, I have been underpaid my accrued holiday pay by 34 hours, which turns this around from my debt to them, to their debt to me.

I did notice that in fact, thank you. But that does not change the fact that you owe them money for an overpayment. The further error may reduce or eradicate the amount you owe, but it doesn't change one jot the facts of the original enquiry. You have no case to argue that you should be paid more because someone made a mistake. Now that you appear to think you may be owed money, I do not see you saying that they should forget all about it because it was a mistake!