parking paid yet pcn issued & POPLA appeal lost

james_trickett

Hi there I really need some urgent help

I paid for parking in full by debit card by car park operator's auto telephone payment system and this payment came out on my bank statement but didn't process somehow on operator's system. POPLA found incredibly in operator's favour, ignoring and dismissing my various evidence of payment - bank statement on following monday alongside aldi ormskirk (onsite retailer), 5 min call log to the auto payment line at time before leaving car park.
what do I do now?


[background:
I parked for a free hour on a CP PLus run private carpark (two saints, Ormskirk) in april 2016.
I chose to pay £2 for another hour because I was close to the free hour limit and didnt want to get a pcn on my mother's car.
The digital pay machine onsite failed to get to payment as they got stuck after identifying the car. Same also for another guy using the machine next to me. So I used CP Plus's automated tel payment service. bad mistake.
The service creates an account from your car reg, but got stuck finding my car and creating an account. I was briefly patched through to an actual person to sort it before continuing and completing auto payment (£2 plus 20p tel admin fee). Only then did I leave car park.
I got not text confirmation which I thought bad practise, but was first time user of such tel parking.

So 2-3 weeks later I get a PCN to registered keeper for £100 violation of T&Cs from ZZPS on behalf of client cp plus. "next course of action is for it to go to wright hassall solicitors".
The pcn is for "vehicle parked on private property in breach of prominently displayed T&Cs".

I appeal and identify myself as the driver because my elderly mum who is registered keeper is going insane with stress over it while dad is on chemo.
But my appeal is not answered instead I get £150 charge from ZZPS a few weeks later.
I appeal to ZZPS to stop this nonsense as Ive already paid, and wait.
They say they are only acting on behalf of their client, subsequently their client cp plus must have confirm ZZPS say the appeal fails.
I finally get pcn put in my name and reset to £100 and new popla code to appeal.

Popla dismiss my appeal which was based on my having not broken any T&Cs because I paid in full before leaving car park. I gave all evidence I had - telephony call log with time and date, duration and number, and my bank statement showing payment to aldi Ormskirk which I was on the car park to shop at coming out on same day as something like "roving parking payment" of £2.20.

I stated that I paid and CP Plus must have had a tech issue and failed to log my payment. CP Plus gave no evidence except that I had no account therefore could not have made payment. Somehow POPLA failed to see that tech failure is a cause here, and said my payment could be to any carpark.

I then complained to POPLA about their bias and unprofessional approach. This was turned down because I received no text confirmation of payment which is not in keeping with their original reasoning and just supports my opinion of tech faults by operator.

The payment on my bank statement lacks geographic placing and company name - yet this is provided by the payment receiver not the bank ie CP Plus themselves. It seems to me this generalised payment wording is helping to undermine my bank statment evidence and perpetuate their fraud imo. I can't get anymore payment info from bank or visa.]


Summary of where I am at now:
Essentially as I paid on the car park in time and in full, I am being victimised by POPLA and cp plus for the latter not having proper payment systems.
My MP is writing to POPLA and local Trading Standards have advised me to tell ZZPS I dispute all charges and they need to take me to court, for then the court should dismiss further expenses zzps claim after such notifcation from me. will this also be the same for solicitors wright hassall?

However I have an illness (M.E) that is exacerbated by stress and parents would like me to just pay up while it's still £100 as if I lose in court I may pay another few hundred on top and I am still unable to work because of my condition and cannot afford. I cant afford the £100 either but Ive lost faith since the POPLA decision and find it all so exhausting and stressful.

I appealed to ALDI UK customer service by email they said they can't do anything and aldi ormskirk said the same.
I cannot find the car park owners to appeal to them and know if I dont pay zzps very soon or tell them to take me to court in dispute the charges will rise again.

please please help, if I don't get good advice soon I'll just pay while it's still £100.
I have read as much as I can on the newbies thread but cannot find anything more relevant and am worn out now. many many thanks for your advice. James

ps
Ive just checked the website payment system ipaymypcn which is run by zzps and they have my charge at £140 plus VAT. I dont know if that is a recent increase or they have just not reduced it back down to the £100 (£60 if I didnt go to POPLA) which I had it back at to during popla appeal.

Fruitcake

Don't panic. PoPLA decisions are not binding on the motorist so you are not required to pay anything.

Read the Sticky thread for NEWBIES to find out all about this.

You will get debt collector letters. These can safely be ignored, as explained in the NEWBIES.

All you can do now is wait to see if you get real court papers. Some of the more knowledgeable posters may be able to tell you if this likely.

Take heart in a recent court case where the judge threw it out because the motorist was able to prove they had paid.

Umkomaas

CP Plus. Only 1 court case (but not necessarily parking related - the record is of all court cases) despite over 200,000 tickets issued in just over 18 months.

http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/CP_Plus.html

On that basis, you have a less than a 1 in 200,000 chance of this getting anywhere near Court. And no doubt CPP are aware that they are on such very thin ice, they're not going to put their head above a very shallow parapet and risk getting it blown off in court. Come back if they're daft enough to try.

james_trickett

thanks Fruitcake very much
I really am quite heartened just by you replying, and you telling me someone won at court.
So I hope others on here can help like you say as this is damaging my health further and I have genuinely read as much as I can (4 hours) on the newbie thread but I cannot find the solution for where I am at.

james_trickett

Umkomaas thank you so much for that incredible research and insight, I'm almost crying here I am so grateful, and feel more brave about continuing to fight this.
Those figures look really low - are ZZPS / Wright Hassall solicitors taking people to court on CPP's behalf instead?
If I understand the newbie thread, it is ONLY the operator that can take one to court, So ZZPS or their solicitors Wright Hassall cannot take me to court??

Please also just finally explain, should I ASAP follow my local trading standards officer's advice from today to write to zzps who are chasing me saying that I dispute all charges as I've already paid ticket and that CPP (she said zzps) as the operator's need to take me to court? This is to give a cut off to today of any additional fees if I lose in court.

Umkomaas

Following the TS advice will not do you any harm. By the same token, from experience, writing a 'cease and desist' style letter to debt collectors rarely achieves the desired outcome. But by following TS advice, you will at least keep them onside should in the future this (unlikely) gets sticky.

I'm afraid you're on a bit of a rollercoaster ride, as long as you hang on, you should get to the end unscathed.

I might as well break this to you now, the PPC has 6 years to pursue you to court. But there are thousands of motorists ignoring debt collector letters and seeing out the 6 years - so this isn't something to worry about. Tackle anything that crops up in that time by coming back for more forum advice. But we don't need to know every time you get a debt collector letter. Be prepared for a few months of regular letters, then it tends to quieten down.

Come back if you get a Letter Before Action (or similarly headed), but only from the PPC or their solicitor (debt collectors can't do this), or real court papers.

HTH

Coupon-mad

Loads of people win in court here and we have NEVER seen a CP Plus claim. If it happened then you have a defence that in fact you paid and can prove it. I would say you have nothing to worry about at all. We will assist you at all stages so come back if concerned.

please please help, if I don't get good advice soon I'll just pay while it's still £100.

Don't.

A quick Google suggests it is owned by Fairacre so contact them, tell them what has happened to you unfairly and ask that they step in and insist that CP Plus cancel this to save your vulnerable family harassment. Contact details are here, start with them:

http://www.fairacreproperty.co.uk/december-2014-fairacre-acquires-6-5m-retail-investment/

Think yourself lucky - this retail park used to have ParkingEye there 2 years ago and they sue people.

To coin & adapt a phrase started by Myriddin this month, ParkingEye would have been a great white shark compared to CP Plus' Dogfish!

james_trickett

Please will somebody answer my brief final points so I can best move this forward.

Coupon-mad

Do not write to ZZPS, they are debt collectors. IGNORE THEM.

Those figures look really low - are ZZPS / Wright Hassall solicitors taking people to court on CPP's behalf instead?

Definitely NOT. ZZPS cannot litigate as they are not solicitors, and WH have never tried a CP Plus case.

In eight years here I have NEVER seen CP Plus sue anyone and I doubt that single court claim recorded by the BMPA is even a parking charge. More likely a contractor argument with a supplier, a corporate issue.

Umkomaas

james_trickett wrote: »

Please will somebody answer my brief final points so I can best move this forward.

What are not answered?

james_trickett

Sorry everyone, my screen refreshes were not keeping up, so it looked like no one had replied hence my last comment which I then tried to delete.
WOW, THANK YOU UMKOMAAS & COUPON-MAD, THIS IS AMAZING HELP!
(And I spent 10 mins alone googling for the car park owners! I think I need to start going to page 2 and beyond of googles searches, I really appreciate you finding them. I will email them too.)

So it's a few hard core months and up to 6 years of being chased, dear Lord.

OK please one question, do I keep cpp / zzps / the solicitors updated of any address changes in this period? I'd be thinking to do this, in order to stop letters coming to my parents address because they hate the stress.
I understand now that I should not contact zzps, but cpp have never given me any contact just zzps acting on their behalf - so I only have zzps contacts to go on. Do I contact zzps to follow TS's advice, or find separate email for cpp on the internet. I'm confused on this point.