Council's & Planning Permission - urgent advice required

Becks045

Richard_Webster wrote: »

Can I make this point loud and clear for everyone's benefit:

Local Searches do not tell you about nearby development proposals!

It is an obvious point that a solicitor should always make when reporting to clients buying property because people always seem (mistakenly) to think that it tells you about these.

There might be reference to a local plan in a search result but if you expect every solicitor to get a copy and read each local plan (they are complicated and sometimes quite thick documents) and explain it to you then sorry but conveyancing charges would double or triple straight away. As local plans are often couched in terms of what might be permitted subject to various constraints etc they (a) give the impression to a lay person that these things will actually happen (when they are only expressions of what would be allowed if applied for) and are (b) assumed to guarantee that other things won't happen. However, people win planning appeals by showing the ministry inspector that the Council's Local Plan is flawed and full of inconsistencies.

On your main beef - have you thought of reporting the Council to the Local Government Ombudsman? He is concerned with maladministration - which could well include the kind of foul up over the addresses that you mentioned.

I've gone back to the council and told them I intend to report them to the local government ombudsman and they are now re-looking at my complaint. Apprently they dont have the resource to check addresses in the Planning department so they send things out and hope for the best which they admit is a fault and they are trying to rectify by upgrading their computer system. That doesn't help me though!

I read the report on the council in question from the LGO and the complaints against them in relation to planning matters are high and an area they are supposed to be working on to improve.

silvercar

Richard_Webster wrote: »

Can I make this point loud and clear for everyone's benefit:

Local Searches do not tell you about nearby development proposals!

Mine did! It reported that the immediate neighbour had planning permission granted to extend their house and that the house behind had knocked down and rebuilt.

Canucklehead

silvercar wrote: »

Mine did! It reported that the immediate neighbour had planning permission granted to extend their house and that the house behind had knocked down and rebuilt.

Good evening: Our online conveyancer advised us as well about planning permissions granted in the area...of course we routinely check planning applications on our council website (an excellent website btw) before we even view properties... forewarned is forearmed.

Canucklehead

pinkshoes

If the people selling the flat were aware of the development, then when selling the flat they should have declared (when filling in the forms for their solicitor) that they knew about it.

You can't really sell a sea view flat knowing that the sea view is about to be destroyed, so I'm guessing this was their efforts to sell the flat at a high price before the new development started. Very cheeky!

As well as taking this up with the council about not sending the letter, you might also want to take this up with the sellers solicitor, as the seller should've declared the development given that they knew about it, as I'm quite sure you wouldn't have bought the flat if you knew all the correct information, or at least not have paid so much for it!

Everyone knows that a sea view massively inflates the price of a proporty, so I think some deception has taken place here!

Debt_Free_Chick

pinkshoes wrote: »

If the people selling the flat were aware of the development, then when selling the flat they should have declared (when filling in the forms for their solicitor) that they knew about it.

But only if "the form" asked them this question.

I'm fairly sure that the seller's information form does not ask the seller about "nearby" development - just about permissions issued on the actual property they're selling.

Councils (actually, Local Planning Authorities) have no statutory obligation to inform anyone about applications for development. They do have a statutory obligation to conduct consideration of the application "in public" - which simply means making the plans and any comments available to the Public. They can do this via their website, offices or both. And a notice stating that an application has been made has to be displayed in Public - either by pinning a notice to the property to be developed; nearby if it's an empty site; and in the local newspaper.

But no-one has the right to be told by the LPA about a proposed development - see sections 65-36 of the Town and Country Planning Act.

Debt_Free_Chick

Becks045 wrote: »

I have managed to obtain a copy of the local authority search and the council did infact instruct and refer the solicitor to a 'local plan' where it outlines about the development.

The Local Plan is the Local Authority's description of where development will (and will not) be allowed. I'm pretty sure it would have shown your solicitor (and you) that you live in an area where future develoment is likely to be allowed. So even if this application had not been successful, a future one would have been (providing it ticks all the other boxes). There will be some areas where development will not be allowed.

It's unlikely that this particular development would have been listed in the Local Plan, unless permission had been given before the Plan was adopted (by the Local Authority). Can you let us know which Council this is, as the Local Plan will be published on the website?

Should your solicitor have told you this? I'm not sure I think it's reasonable to assume that some development is going to take place, unless there are reasons why this wouldn't be likely or where development is very strictly controlled e.g. conservation area. However, that statement would be given (where applicable) to warn you as a buyer that development would be more strict than usually expected.

Should the Local Authority have given your solicitor details of this specific development? It depends on what question the solicitor asked them.

What does Richard Webster think?

We bought the flat in March 2007 and I do know for a fact that the people we bought from knew about the development and have written to their solicitors about falsely filling in the sellers information form.

What was the question - precisely - put on the SIF?

seven-day-weekend

Although your letters were sent to an innaccurate address, I believe the Council to have fulfilled their commitment to publicising the development as they have posted site notices and press notices.

You do not have any right to a view (you do not 'own' the view).

Richard Webster is quite right when he says that searches do not usually tell you anything ab0ut applications on adjoining land (unless specifically requested and paid for). I spent three years doing Planning Searches. Sometimes the boundaries will come up as slightly innaccurate and thet way you may get details of an application on an adjoining property but it is not usually specifically searched on.

Debt_Free_Chick

Richard_Webster wrote: »

There might be reference to a local plan in a search result but if you expect every solicitor to get a copy and read each local plan (they are complicated and sometimes quite thick documents) and explain it to you then sorry but conveyancing charges would double or triple straight away. As local plans are often couched in terms of what might be permitted subject to various constraints etc they (a) give the impression to a lay person that these things will actually happen (when they are only expressions of what would be allowed if applied for) and are (b) assumed to guarantee that other things won't happen. However, people win planning appeals by showing the ministry inspector that the Council's Local Plan is flawed and full of inconsistencies.

Thanks Richard - I posted my missive on the Local Plan without reading your post, which pretty much answered the question anyway

Richard_Webster

Three points:

1. It is possible to do an additional "PlanSearch" which shows Planning permissions within a certain radius of the property. The information is not always guaranteed to be 100% up to date but for the £30-£40 it costs it is worth doing and I do them routinely and explain the reason why. I also explain that even that will not tell clients about all potentially anti-social changes.

Some building work does not require Permission but can still have an adverse effect in some circumstances.

Some changes in the way a property is used don't constitute a material change of use in Planning terms.e.g innocuous light industrial building making widgets causing no nuisance to anyone - Transit comes almost daily to collect the widgets - nobody notices. They carry on making widgets but then collections are made twice weekly by a large juggernaut which reverses up a sideway at 5am and wakes everyone up. Huge nuisance but no material change use - still a light industrial building!

2. For admin purposes some Councils divide their area into small sections to which they give an internal reference number. When you do a local search they look up the reference number for that address and reveal all the planning permissions within that small area. So you sometimes get the information which you don't want. (This can cause trouble later because buyer's solicitors then want to see copies of irrelevant permissions that obviously don't relate to the property.)

3. Unlikely that the local authority would give details of the specific development in a search response unless they were asked an additional question which focussed on the particular site. OP would have had to have told his solicitor he had a concern about the particular piece of land and asked that an additional question (at extra cost) be asked about it.

Debt_Free_Chick

And, of course, the Council doesn't send the solicitor all the applications that are received, in the relevant area, for the week after the search has been done!

The search is out of date within a day or two of being issued.

Buyers must do a certain amount of research themselves, on those things that are important to them.

And we all must accept a certain amount of development, with the pressure on housing.