Derbyshire pub fights back in tripadvisor backlash over "parking fines"

pogofish

Carthesis wrote: »

The land hasn't changed use. It was always a car park.

If the PPC/pub are now making money off the car park via tickets, then yes there may well be a change of use involved - Similarly business rates may now be different and if the PPC are charging VAT, well that's a whole other can of worms.

pogofish

From the streetview link - Is that a public parking/WC sign right in front of the pub sign on the main road?

Maybe that's the root of the place's parking problems - A sign like that could be directing people into the pub car park instead of the public one?

beamerguy

pogofish wrote: »

Maybe that's the root of the place's parking problems - A sign like that could be directing people into the pub car park instead of the public one?

That is funny, ... follow the leader stuff

pogofish

beamerguy wrote: »

That is funny, ... follow the leader stuff

Just had a shufty around on Google Earth proper - The public car park is very poorly and confusingly signed - in fact this is the only sign and it does appear to point straight into the pub car park, which also has a prominent P at the gate, whilst for the real car park, you need to keep-on left to the end of the green, then follow the road round to the right before you get there - and its obscured by trees for much of the way. From the two other directions, its not even signed at all.

If a PPC was actually "managing" this place, they surely would have got-on to the council to have this sign corrected - unless they saw how it could work to their advantage?

Its been years since I was biking around Derbyshire but from what I remember, the villages can get quite busy at times, so yes, you need to keep your wits about you.

Fruitcake

I can sympathise to a certain extent with the landowner, if there is a genuine parking problem. Using a private parking company to scam genuine customers is not the answer.
If a PPC was to truly manage the car park and eliminate the problem, they would have employers in the car park telling motorists it is a private car park for pub patrons only, guide genuine customers to a space, or show them where they can safely wait if one is not immediately available, and direct non customers to the way out or alternative car parking facilities outside the pub grounds.
In addition, all bar staff should be properly trained to tell patrons about the parking arrangements in case they missed the large prominent signs that a decent, honest private parking company would have put in place.

Ultimately it is the landowner's responsibility to ensure all of the above happens. It would appear that at this pub it is not the case.

As for the poll, I suspect the majority of pollsters are unaware that this is an unregulated scam industry, and by their ignorance they are supporting scammers.

daytona0

Carthesis wrote: »

I think you'd likely find - if you bothered to ask the question in the right way without being antagonistic - that *EVERY SINGLE REGULAR POSTER* in this section of the forum would agree the pub has a right to manage their car parking spaces, provided on their own land, for their own customers benefit. I doubt anyone would disagree that people parking in the "free" car park then wandering off for a walk for a few hours shouldn't be using the pub car park - to some extent even if those people plan to utilise the pub afterwards. Especially as there is a cheap pay and display just down the road.

Then you aren't very far from agreeing with me here

What is at issue here is the way they go about it. It would be trivial to put up an exit barrier that requires a code to raise that you can only get from the bar staff. It would also be trivial to put in a pay and display machine that issues a ticket that you simply have 'authenticated' in the pub such that genuine customers don't pay a penny.

There are costs involved in the maintaining and installation of either the exit barrier or the pd machine(s) Not to mention they would be a bit of an eyesore. Not to mention that you still need to regulate it!

Sadly, turning to the likes of UKPC is the most cost effective way of solving the problem of people parking there against the wishes of the land owner.

Instead, they've got in a PPC who uses the same underhand tactics as most of the industry to charge people who may or may not be unwitting. You'll notice the article only puts up the "entrance" sign (which appears to be about A3 sized at a guesstimate) that refers in relatively small text to "T&Cs applying", and doesn't show either the text, format, size or placement of the "dozen or so" other signs that are apparently in the car park.

For reference, here is the sign in context on Streetview:

Derbyshire Arms, Baslow

I agree with you 100%

How trivial would it have been for the pub to have "CUSTOMER PARKING ONLY" white-lined onto the tarmac on the drive? Or to put up a larger sign? Or to implement a different system?

Answer - not very difficult at all.

I agree with you 100% BUT, even with the clearest sign ever designed by man I bet someone would fail to see it!

Odds are, they're being paid a regular stipend by the PPC for the privilege of the PPC being able to chuck out "fines". If that's the case, the PPC has no interest in fair car park management, and simply wants to maximise the number of "fines" so they can recoup their costs and make a profit.

I agree with you 99% but have to just add that the mere fact that refunds are offered shows that the pub is being genuine in their desire to tackle their parking issues. Bit harsh on the business to 1 star them on rating sites just because you don't like their parking arrangements, designed to allow you to have a space to park in, without mentioning what the venue, food, drink etc was like... The pub's reply suggests that they probably weren't patrons

If other drivers didn't take the mick (and/or fail to take responsibility once in a while) then there would be no need for PPCs in the first place

"antagonistic"? Nope, just challenging the bandwagon. Funnily enough I agree completely that the costs are extortionate, and that signs can be unclear, but I don't agree about bashing local businesses for trying to tackle these sort of issues. Also don't agree with people who fail to be a bit mindful of possible car park charges on private land. Again, UKPC wouldn't be in business very long if people complied with the rules, whether in small text or not, instead of just "chancing it"! That's sad to think that drivers hold all of the power in forcing UKPC out of business, but it doesn't happen!

Coupon-mad

I think you have just won the prize for mentioning 'UKPC' the most times in one post.

Were you proud of the photo-doctoring?

Were you proud when the ex-employee exposed UKPC as deliberately targeting cancer wards?

DoaM

Whilst I can't say it categorically, I'm pretty sure daytona0 is not a PPC stooge. We've a known former MSE forum member has had our agreements and spats on other boards (mainly Consumer Rights as I recall) over the past few years

... and I can't imagine a fellow Toon fan being a PPC stooge. (I'm ignoring the fact that UKPPO infest Newcastle Airport ... they obviously must be Mackems.

Coupon-mad

A Toon fan could live and work anywhere though. This poster has never denied 'working' (for want of a better word) for a PPC and has come here defending the protection racket as if it's normal business. Clearly it's not.

Off topic - Will we see a battle for the top this year, DoaM? Or are Newcastle going to blow away the Seagulls?! I don't like to think we are playing for second place but your goal tally is flipping fantastic!

DoaM

I watched the game last night ... it was 6-0 but we also hit the woodwork 3 times, missed an open goal, and had a few just past the post with the keeper beaten. Could easily have been 10-0.

I know they had a man sent off when it was 1-0, but it could easily have been 3-0 by that time.

The Seagulls may be flying high, but they're like Icarus compared to the Magpies ... their wings will melt as the heat arrives.