CPM fine - help!

jessie1706

Today I got a Parking Charge Notice from CPM (UK Car Park Management) for the sum of £60 if I pay within 14 days, but would escalate to £100 if pay after the first 14 days. They claimed I was in voilation of two separate things:
1. No Parking Outside of a Marked Bay
2. No Parking Outside of a Designated Area.
I'm going to add some photos to this thread, but I clearly was parked inside of a marked bay, since you can see the dropped curb and change of colour of brick for the car bay, but I wasn't parked in my allocated bay because...
Context: I'm a 19 year old university student renting an apartment on the estate where CPM operate. Last night (probably like 11pm) I was driving home after a late shift at work and there were two 'boy racer' type cars in my allocated bay, and the person's next to me. I pulled up about two car lengths behind them and one of them got out and screamed at me to move. I then parked in an empty space, but knowing that someone else parks there, I waited in my car for 5 minutes until one of the cars left. Then, the other car re-positioned his car so it was taking up both bays. I obviously wasn't going to get into a fight with this idiot, since I was on my own in the car park and it was late at night. So I decided to move my car back into the main road and into one of the MARKED BAYS.
I came out today to move my car back into its space (albeit later than I should have, since the fine was issued at 10:27am, but to be fair, I had an engineer in my flat since 8am, and I couldn't leave him on his own), and I had a fine on the windshield.
I've read some other threads about ignoring the fines since it's not backed up by the council or other authorities, but since I'm a student I can't afford to take the risk of incurring a £100 fine, or going to court. Should I pay the fine and try to appeal retrospectively? Should I ignore it completely? Please help!
Thank you!
NOTE: I'm not allowed to post links to the photos because I'm a new user, but if you go on imgur and search 'CPM fine' you should be able to see them there. Sorry for the convoluted path!

Fruitcake

It is not a fine. The advice to ignore is four years out of date.

Please read the Sticky thread for NEWBIES then send the IPC template you will find there. Don't panic. Spend some time reading the NEWBIES until you begin to understand what is going on with this unregulated industry.

Have you complained to the landowner, especially asking why the parking company is failing to manage the car park instead of ticketing you.

Your circumstances and what happened on the day is irrelevant, so stick to the script and send the template without editing. Don't send it too early, but don't miss the appeal deadline either.

Do not reveal who was driving under any circumstances.

Upload images to a web hosting sire such as tinypic or photobucket, then paste the URL here but change http to hxxp. Someone here will change it to a live link. Pictures of the signs and redacted windscreen ticket will be useful as well. Make sure the vehicle's VRN is redacred on any images.

Coupon-mad

jessie1706 wrote: »

NOTE: I'm not allowed to post links to the photos because I'm a new user, but if you go on imgur and search 'CPM fine' you should be able to see them there. Sorry for the convoluted path!

Show us a broken link, as explained by Fruitcake.

Bad luck for having aggressive boy racers AND a money-grabbing ex-clamper 'scumpany' like UKCPM in your car park.

If you contact your landlord VERY quickly you may find that a PCN *can* as a one-off, be cancelled within the first week, under the contract. Give your sob story to the Managing Agents of the site if you know who they are (not your letting agent) and ask for intervention.

As for appeal to UKCPM, there is no appeal that will get shot of this annoyance if the Managing agents don't care to assist - but we do suggest a template challenge to IPC firms, then ignore debt collector letters (this will NOT affect your credit rating as long as you inform UKCPM every time you move...what a pain). They have six years to pursue this, so all you need to do is open and laugh at debt collector threatograms and make sure you keep the awful firm in the loop as to your address to avoid a stealth CCJ o an old address much later on.

Nasty situation but NOT a reason to line their pockets & support the next PCNs. Read the NEWBIES FAQS thread to understand the IPC issue.

jessie1706

hxxp://imgur.com/a/avcPN
I've just noticed that on the pictures there's 'no parking' spray painted on the curb, so give it to me straight - am I completely screwed because of this *totally obvious* signage?
Thanks for the prompt advice! I'm going to go to my lettings agents to find out who runs the whole estate, and see if I can convince them to scratch off the fine to avoid a lot of hassle.

Coupon-mad

I've just noticed that on the pictures there's 'no parking' spray painted on the curb, so give it to me straight - am I completely screwed because of this *totally obvious* signage?

Not at all, this is just UKCPM who have attempted the princely number of just TEN small claims so far this year, out of almost 30,000 unfair PCNs issued in six months to hapless victims. I will let you work out that tiny percentage of likelihood:

http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/UK_Car_Park_Management.html

There is no appeal that will work though so you need to get used to the idea of getting some silly debt demands if the Managing agents will not stop this. Try very, very hard, be persuasive, cry if you want/if that seems to work - try it all! I have a 21 yr old DD at Uni myself and she can wrap people around her finger with clever negotiation but if that doesn't work she's good at showing how upset she is, too. Not that she's ever got a 'fake PCN from a scammer' because I've taught her well about looking for the scummy signs, reading the terms and avoiding issues.

Not very likely to ever come back to haunt you but please return if concerned, reply on this thread.

What we do ask is, DO NOT think 'oh, i will pay it for an easy life' because people who do that are supporting these ex-clampers. If no-one paid, they'd crawl back under their stone. Don't be fooled by other adults who think this will muck up your credit rating - NO, it will not.

Good luck parking during your time at Uni, with UKCPM skulking around, you would fare better on-street you know. At least Council tickets are £25 and appealable, unlike this protection racket from a notorious bunch of chancers.



curb = kerb (sorry, a bugbear of mine, 'curb' is USA spelling and we aren't American!).

Coupon-mad

http://imgur.com/a/avcPN

That bay looks to me, completely unmarked. I had to REALLY search for where you said it was spray-painted 'no parking'. Could not see it at all but you said it was there on the kerb so I finally saw it!

You could not possibly have read that in the dark and there is no sign there - it looks like a layby. Looks OK to park. I'd have parked there.

Where's the nearest sign then? What does it say and can you get a picture in the dark?

jessie1706

hxxp://imgur.com/a/F7C5t
This is the photo of the sign the warden must've taken earlier, but this sign is about 40m up the street. I've gone outside just now to have a look and there is a sign on the lamppost opposite, but this has been turned and now faces more towards the houses than the street. I bet it was those boy racers!
I'm definitely going to 'stick it to the man' and go through the appeals process (if the property management don't cancel it).

Fruitcake

jessie1706 wrote: »

hxxp://imgur.com/a/F7C5t
This is the photo of the sign the warden must've taken earlier, but this sign is about 40m up the street. I've gone outside just now to have a look and there is a sign on the lamppost opposite, but this has been turned and now faces more towards the houses than the street. I bet it was those boy racers!
I'm definitely going to 'stick it to the man' and go through the appeals process (if the property management don't cancel it).

http://imgur.com/a/F7C5t

The sign could just as easily have been deliberately turned by the parking operator upon installation. In any case, it is incumbent on them to manage the car park properly and ensure signs are correctly positioned, and abuse of bays by people who prevented you parking in yours is controlled.

Coupon-mad

jessie1706 wrote: »

hxxp://imgur.com/a/F7C5t
This is the photo of the sign the warden must've taken earlier, but this sign is about 40m up the street. I've gone outside just now to have a look and there is a sign on the lamppost opposite, but this has been turned and now faces more towards the houses than the street. I bet it was those boy racers!

I'm definitely going to 'stick it to the man' and go through the appeals process (if the property management don't cancel it).

Just don't write as the driver, don't say 'I parked'. Write at all times as the registered keeper if that's you, or 'keeper' if not. The NEWBIES thread explains. Not sure you should try IAS as it is a kangaroo court but...but...that bay is so misleading. Not marked at night at all.

I agree with Fruitcake, we bet it *could* have been the parking firm who turned the signs round. Maybe you haven't quite grasped yet that they are far worse than any boy racers, a bigger threat to you.

If you display a permit make sure it is attached (Blutack or a clip) not just loose 'on the dash' where a 'person' with an agenda (not the boy racers) could shake the car to dislodge it. And if UKCPM ever change the permit for a new one, meet the timeline for displaying the 'new' one to the letter.

jessie1706

Hi guys, thanks for your help previously!
I've had a reply to my letter (the template one in the newbie section, plus I added in the account of 'the driver' about what happened and why they couldn't park there) and it's been 'carefully considered' but denied. These are the points they give:
- The vehicle was not parked within a designated area/parking bay (a point already given on the initial fine)
- The photographic evidence collected at the time of the contravention supports the above statement
- Signage clearly states 'NO PARKING OUTSIDE OF A DESIGNATED/PARKING BAY'
- We appreciate your statement that somebody was parked in your bay and understand this can be extremely frustrating and cause a great deal on inconvenience. However you should refrain from parking in breach of the restrictions yourself. Alternative parking should be found for the time being and if you are unsure or require advice, CPM should be contacted (our number is on all signage). It is the driver's responsibility to ensure all restrictions are adhered to at all times regardless of the circumstances.
- It is often the case that drivers parking outside of a designated areas/bays feel that they are no impeding other motorists, however parking spaces and access ways are meticulously planned in order to allow sufficient space for other vehicles. Parking contrary to the above can restrict traffic flow, impede emergency vehicles from having ample access and can make developments look disorderly.
- blah blah, permits displayed in vehicles much correspond with ones of the bay
- The photographic evidence of your vehicle shows that you are within a clear view of one of the many warning signs throughout the development. All signage states the T&C's of parking within the restricted area. Upon reading the signage you have contractually agreed to pay a parking charge fee as restrictions were breached. It is the drivers responsibility to ensure parking is permitted prior to leaving the vehicle unattended within the restricted area.

Okay. A bit of an essay, but they are the points listed. My balance is still £60, and I don't think I have long left till it rises to £100. I'm a student, so the £40 is obviously a big difference, although I don't want to give any of my cash to them! Could I please have some suggested next steps? They didn't give me the information about their policy with the landowner or on site business (as I asked for in the letter), so could this be a loophole?
Thank you!

Redx

its not a fine , its not a legal penalty , its an invoice

any "loopholes" are argued in court in front of a judge

the PPC has 6 years to try a court claim , IGNORE any debt collector letetrs (they are powerless)

do not ignore a legitimate LBC or an MCOL from Northampton (or more rarely Salford)

if you get either of those 2 , ask for further help

you are under no obligation to pay this INVOICE unless you lost in court and a judge tells you to pay the judgment , promptly , usually within 28 days

think of it as a bit like Rinder on the tv , but no theatrics or catcalling

in the meantime , try and get the landowner or MA to cancel it, that is your BEST OPTION , in writing