Seeking clarification for PCN ticket

curlybonce

I am a newbie and have ready many of the forum posts regarding PCN tickets but have one or two questions that need clarification.

1. The PCN ticket I received in the post gives a house number, street and postcode for a car park. However, having studied a Land Registry map, both the address and postcode are incorrect for where the car was actually parked, which was about seventy metres away in a car park off a side street with a different postcode.. There is no car park at the address they have given. Does this make the ticket invalid because of incorrect information given on the ticket?

2.As the car park is so far away from the address given on the ticket, does the parking company have to prove they own or have authority to manage that piece of land?

3. I understand that the company must issue the ticket within 15 days of the incident date, but is that 15 working days or can weekends be counted? Are the 15 days between the incident date and date of PCN issue or between the incident date and the date of receipt of the ticket in the post? This would make a difference.

Will any of the above be enough to win an appeal with the parking company?
Thanks.

pappa_golf

Are the 15 days between the incident date and date of PCN issue or between the incident date and the date of receipt of the ticket in the post? This would make a difference.


if this was an ANPR type ticket , 28 days -56 if ticket on car

Fruitcake

Have you read the Sticky thread for NEWBIES yet? This is your one stop shop for private parking issues, and it will answer many of your questions.

What is the name of the parking company?

Nothing makes the PCN invalid.

As far as the dates, if ANPR is used, the NTK must arrive no later than day 14 days starting the day after the alleged incident, for keeper liability to apply.

If a windscreen ticket was used, the NTK has to arrive between day 28 and 56 starting the day after the alleged event for keeper liability to apply.

Dates and acronyms/initials are explained in the NEWBIES thread.

curlybonce

Thanks for the information. I did look at the newbie thread, but it is dated Nov 13 and I know the law has changed since the Beavis case in 2015. I didn't know if any of the information on it would be out of date now.

The parking company in my case is Civil Enforcement ltd. The car park uses ANPR cameras.

Regarding the dates, it was 22 days after the incident when I received the NTK in the post - if weekends are included. Counting only working days it was 16 days.

Umkomaas

Thanks for the information. I did look at the newbie thread, but it is dated Nov 13 and I know the law has changed since the Beavis case in 2015. I didn't know if any of the information on it would be out of date now.

Nothing is out of date - check the dates of edits (amendments/additions) at the foot of each post.

Why would a regular with almost 36,000 posts refer you to something that is out of date?

beamerguy

curlybonce wrote: »

Thanks for the information. I did look at the newbie thread, but it is dated Nov 13 and I know the law has changed since the Beavis case in 2015. I didn't know if any of the information on it would be out of date now.

The Beavis case did not change the law ? It was an incorrect judgement made by the Supreme Court which only refers to one point.

As it was the Supreme Court, lower courts will abide by their wrong decision
If your case does not relate to the Beavis case, it's simply business as usual in the county court.
BUT, the judges in county courts are not fully up to speed yet

PPC's like you to think that they will win regarding the Beavis case, they preach on their web sites and letters about Beavis.
Even some stupid solicitors preach the same

Guys_Dad

Still not clear about dates. Please confirm it was ANPR and then give date of incident and date on NtK. (That is if you want a definitive answer on out of time)

curlybonce

Thanks Guys Dad. ANPR was used in car park. Parking incident took place on 22nd Sep and PCN issue date on NTK is 13th Oct. NTK arrived in post on 15th Oct.

Fruitcake

curlybonce wrote: »

Thanks for the information. I did look at the newbie thread, but it is dated Nov 13 and I know the law has changed since the Beavis case in 2015. I didn't know if any of the information on it would be out of date now.

The parking company in my case is Civil Enforcement ltd. The car park uses ANPR cameras.

Regarding the dates, it was 22 days after the incident when I received the NTK in the post - if weekends are included. Counting only working days it was 16 days.

As above, the NEWBIES thread was last amended in May of this year, so is not out of date. MSE only allows Coupon-Mad as a concession to amend it every now and then. It gets updated quickly if there is any significant change to report, otherwise there are lots of tweaks that get uploaded all at once, which is why several of the posts in the NEWBIES were all updated on the same date.

It explains the dates for you, as I have done.

With regard to ANPR, the NTK must arrive by day 14 at the latest starting the day after the alleged event. In other words, where ANPR is used, the NTK has to a arrive no later than day 15 for keeper liability to apply.

CEL are BPA members so you should appeal using the BPA template in blue you will find there. You can if you wish add that the NTK has been received too late for keeper liability to apply, but it is unlikely to make any difference.
If you do add anything, be very careful not to reveal who was driving. This is so easy to do that it is not recommended.

Guys_Dad

When you appeal, you make this your major point. Failure to comply with POFA Section 4 paragraph 9.4

(9.4) The notice must be given by:
(a) handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current
address for service for the keeper, within the
relevant period; or
(b) sending it by post to a current address for service
for the keeper so that it is delivered to that
address within the relevant period.
(5) The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph
(4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after
that on which the specified period of parking ended.
(6) A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the
contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given”
for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second
working day after the day on which it is posted; and for
this purpose “working day” means any day other than a
Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

Make sure you quote the relevant section and words as you must not assume that the PPC, Appeal Service Assessor or courts are as informed as this forum.

Then you can add the other points in the NEWBIES thread as back up, but please don't write "Signs failed to meet BPA CoP" or similar unless you can substantiate such claims. Scatter gun approach without killer buckshot is detrimental to a good appeal.

curlybonce

Thank you all so much for the information. I did not mean to suggest that the information on this forum was out of date - this is the first time I have used a MSE forum. I will let you know the outcome of my appeal.