VCS Parking Charges (3) - Resulted In County Court Claim Form

The_Deep

I do not understand, why there should be a problem? Why should the MA have a copy?

If the landlord cannot find his/her copy, his/her solicitors/mortgagor/ Land Registry, will have a copy, as perhaps will the previous owner of the property.

The MA may well have engaged the PPC, but they will not have any knowledge of tenants' leases. Why approach them in the first place.

Another problem you may face is that you say that this is an undocumented tenancy, i.e. you have no AST. The MA may ask why you are there, whether the owner is paying tax on the rent. There may also be problems with the lender and the insurance companies.

This could well come out if you follow the advice of some here and sue the MA. AFAICS you have a lot fewer rights than a properly documented tenant, so tread softly.

If the landlord is not declaring you rent for tax, and you have colluded in this, you may wish to pay VCS the Danegeld.

DoaM

The_Deep wrote: »

Another problem you may face is that you say that this is an undocumented tenancy, i.e. you have no AST.

This needs clarified. Did you previously have an AST and this has moved on to a rolling tenancy (or whatever it is called)? If yes then it is NOT an undocumented tenancy ... the original AST documented the tenancy, thus the original terms still apply except for the minimum period of tenancy.

The_Deep

... Did you previously have an AST and this has moved on to a rolling tenancy (or whatever it is called)?

It is called a Periodic Tenancy, but this I what the OP says

We have not signed anything in terms of the lease as the property ...

It looks to be as though it is an entirely informal arrangement.

KimmyHrunt

The_Deep wrote: »

I do not understand, why there should be a problem? Why should the MA have a copy?

If the landlord cannot find his/her copy, his/her solicitors/mortgagor/ Land Registry, will have a copy, as perhaps will the previous owner of the property.

The MA may well have engaged the PPC, but they will not have any knowledge of tenants' leases. Why approach them in the first place.

Another problem you may face is that you say that this is an undocumented tenancy, i.e. you have no AST. The MA may ask why you are there, whether the owner is paying tax on the rent. There may also be problems with the lender and the insurance companies.

This could well come out if you follow the advice of some here and sue the MA. AFAICS you have a lot fewer rights than a properly documented tenant, so tread softly.

If the landlord is not declaring you rent for tax, and you have colluded in this, you may wish to pay VCS the Danegeld.

Landlord has owned the property since new, so no previous owner (he's had the property about 10-12 years). He doesnt know where his agreement is as its that long ago, neither of us know who he has an agreement with.

I obtained a copy of the agreement between VCS and the MA, then was advised in this thread to obtain a copy of the agreement that the property owner has, as this was VITAL. We wasnt sure if the there was an agreeement in place with the MA, hence asking/querying this.

I read an article (somebody linked it to me in here) and a case was won as it was judged that an agreement between an MA and PPC does not automatically over rule a lease agreement for a property - are there not similar circumstances here?

From what i've taken form this thread, the MA can enter an agreement with the PPC, however what is in the property owners agreement is very important, i dont understand what is incorrect about what we have done?

I now know that we need to request a copy from the land registry, but then what? How would anyone in this thread know that the landlord will not have ANY agreement with the MA? Should i have automatically known that this may be the case and he would need to go direct to the land registry?

The_Deep wrote: »

... Did you previously have an AST and this has moved on to a rolling tenancy (or whatever it is called)?

It is called a Periodic Tenancy, but this I what the OP says

We have not signed anything in terms of the lease as the property ...

It looks to be as though it is an entirely informal arrangement.

Informal/verbal agreement with landlord, we pay the council tax and all bills, pay rent to the landlord.

EDIT - Requested copy of lease from Land Registry.

KimmyHrunt

Also....

Assured shorthold tenancies (ASTs)
The most common form of tenancy is an AST. Most new tenancies are automatically this type.

A tenancy can be an AST if all of the following apply:

1) you’re a private landlord or housing association
2) the tenancy started on or after 15 January 1989
3) the property is your tenants’ main accommodation
4) you don’t live in the property


All the above apply, therefore we have an AST?

Is that correct?

Thanks in advance...again

The_Deep

If you have an AST, how is it that neither of you can find it. It is an important document conferring rights and obligations on both parties.

I owned a flat a few years ago where my lease stipulated that I had to send a copy of the draft AST to my head leaseholder when a tenancy changed hands. If the flat is mortgaged the mortgager may want to see a copy. Some charge a fee when a tenancy changes hands.

Many insurance companies will not grant cover to landlords without proper references and an AST in place.

You may well qualify for one, but do you have one? I dread to think what problems you could face if your toilet backed up and damaged communal and other properties.

Coupon-mad

KimmyHrunt wrote: »

surely this would make the VCS agreement VOID?!

Yes, you can argue that the signs are of no consequence, using this case:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5553131

That is very important for your defence, the Jopson case (I mentioned it in an earlier reply to you - but we now have the transcript = gold dust!). The BMPA webpage linked there has hosted the transcript of the hearing and it is an Appeal case - that's higher than small claims, decided by a Senior Circuit Judge and is deemed persuasive at county court hearings.

Can you remind me, has the driver been admitted or not to VCS?

Have you read lamilad's thread detailing his epic win yesterday over Excel (VCS' sister company, both are owned by 'Captain Clampit' himself)? His defence exhibits included Henry Greenslade's words from the POPLA Annual Report 2015 and the lady Judge lapped it up and she understood that the keeper could not be held liable. Case dismissed!

KellyJefferson

I parked in a car park in Newcastle city centre without paying as for as long as I have know that car park it has always been free after 5pm. This had apparently changed but I was unaware until I came back with the fine on my window.

I did not pay and am now on my 3rd letter from the VCS threatening me with court action. I have been told not to pay but have also been scared into thinking they may end up sending balifs out.

They are asking for £100. Do I continue to ignore?

Thanks

Ralph-y

KellyJefferson

you are now doing what is called hijacking a thread :eek:


so please read through ....



https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

then start your own thread for further help / advice

oh ... and if you are using a phone to browse ... then a PC / laptop will make things easier .....

Ralph:cool:

KimmyHrunt

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Yes, you can argue that the signs are of no consequence, using this case:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5553131

That is very important for your defence, the Jopson case (I mentioned it in an earlier reply to you - but we now have the transcript = gold dust!). The BMPA webpage linked there has hosted the transcript of the hearing and it is an Appeal case - that's higher than small claims, decided by a Senior Circuit Judge and is deemed persuasive at county court hearings.

Can you remind me, has the driver been admitted or not to VCS?

Have you read lamilad's thread detailing his epic win yesterday over Excel (VCS' sister company, both are owned by 'Captain Clampit' himself)? His defence exhibits included Henry Greenslade's words from the POPLA Annual Report 2015 and the lady Judge lapped it up and she understood that the keeper could not be held liable. Case dismissed!

Hi Coupon,

Driver has not been admitted to VCS.

In regards to keeper liability, isn't that only if they have NOT followed the POFA in regards to the time frames and the NTK?

I'm waiting on a copy of the lease from LR currently.

Thank you