Leak ceiling and the Freeholder says it's not their problem, help please.

Christal_2

Sorry to post something doesn't have much to do with house sales on this board, but I'm really upset now and don't know where to turn, any advice is helpful, thanks in advance.

Basically we discovered there was water dripping through our ceiling light in the shower room on Saturday afternoon, and then found some water mark/stains on the wall and ceiling of the same room, tried to get in touch with the people upstairs and managed to have a word with them, there was nothing unusal upstairs, and their bathroom/shower room/kitchen is all dry, only thing is they had a bath in the morning, and the bathroom is right on top of our shower room.

As we live in a flat which is owned like shared ownership (we own 100% of our flat, but the owner of upstairs flat only owns 70%), my first thought was to call the housing association/freeholder to ask them to send someone, they refused saying because I own 100%, it's my own problem. I tried to argue as it's to do with the pipe in between my ceiling and floor upstairs, it's covered under building insurance only, and the building insurance is done by the freeholder not us, so ultimately this should be their responsibility.

Anyway they said "NO" and then I tried to contact the owner of upstairs (the people living there is only tenant), he came late in the night, was nice and said he didn't own 100% of the flat, which means the freeholder should be responsible for his flat's pipes and stuff, based on the logic from the person I spoke to earlier in the afternoon.

So he called them again and they sent someone straight away to look at my flat, they said it could be a leak from the waste pipe upstairs, but as no one is around in the flat upstairs they couldn't do anything. They promised will call again on Monday to do a leak test and sort this out.

I was less worried after that, but then the Freeholder called again just now saying they made a mistake to send someone out last night, and this is still my responsibility!! I argued that it's not anything in the flat has gone wrong, it is in between my flat and the one upstairs, pipe has become leaking, how can this not be their problem.

In the end they just gave me the details of the building insurance, saying that I have to call the insurer myself and get someone out to take a look at the place, but me or the owner of upstairs flat may need to pay for the call out, and depends on "whose" pipe is broken, either me or upstairs will have to pay for the cost.

I'm really upset now as it seems the freeholder just wants to wash their hands off, so my question is should this kind of problem really be sorted by myself and the other flat owner or the freeholder?

If it is their responsibility, and they are still trying to pushing me off, what can I do/say/write to them to make them understand they have to get the problem solved?

Alan_M_2

Just call the insurance company, they'll deal with it and pass the buck to the relevant person.

I'm more interested in the principal of renting out a shared ownership property, can you do that with SO mortgage?

Debt_Free_Chick

Agree - you call YOUR insurance company and they "follow the chain" back to whoever else might be responsible.

Christal_2

Thanks Alan and DFC's response, so you mean the building insurance provider will figure out who is responsible even though the freeholder is saying me or my upstairs owner needs to pay?

Alan, yes appraently you can!! I only know that yesterday, but I think he gave the freeholder some reason about why he can't live there himself so they allowed him to rent it out.

Christal_2

BTW DFC, I don't have building insurance, I only have content insurance which I doubt will cover this kind of stuff.......reason I don' thave builidng insurance is it's done by the freeholder.

BASFORDLAD

na u should always have ur own buildings insurance

Somerset

I was in the same situaton but in reverse. Downstairs flat had the leak from me but my flat was bone dry - it turned out to be my pipes from the bath gubbins which ran through the void to outside. In our case a claim was made through the buildings insurance, arranged by the freeholder. The claim was a bit iffy but the managing agent got it approved.

The main thing is to find out where specifically the leak is coming from ( which bit of pipework ) - temporarily solve it so the watr ingress doesn't get worse - then argue about who's responsible. I would have thought buildings ins if it's in the void but the upstairs flat's contents if it's above their floor level. As others have said, have a chat with your contents insurer and see what they suggest.

pinkshoes

Whether you own 70% or 100% of the flat, it's still a leasehold, therefore surely it's the freeholder who is supposed to deal with the building side of things??

In the end they just gave me the details of the building insurance, saying that I have to call the insurer myself and get someone out to take a look at the place, but me or the owner of upstairs flat may need to pay for the call out, and depends on "whose" pipe is broken, either me or upstairs will have to pay for the cost.

Well, logically, it's unlikely that a pipe above your flat containing water would be YOUR pipe, as it would be utterly ludicrous to pump your waste water upwards then back down again!! I'd suggest you keep in close contact with the owner of the upstairs flat in this case, as I'm sure he won't be happy having to foot the bill for this!

Contact the buildings insurer that the freeholder has the insurance with, and speak to them.

Christal_2

Well Pinkshoes that's exactly what I thought.

Anyway I have just rang the building insurance provide - Zurich, they say the redecoration of my room (painting the walls, change the lights) is covered, but they don't cover the fix of leak pipe upstairs..........this is nonsense as I can get my room done nicely but then 3 weeks later this will happen again!

The lady went on saying if the people upstairs only need to open the bath panel to check the pipe then it's not covered, but if they need to dig through the wall/floor to fix it, then it's covered.........I don't understand this kind of logic, does anyone know why?

Doozergirl

Because it's propbably a simple fix which does involve any element of 'building' Christal. It's probably something very simple that very much belongs inside your neighbours flat which is also an area that your freeholder is not responsible for, regardless of them still owning a 30% share of the flat. I'm sure your neighbour's lease will be quite clear in stating that he is responsible for the upkeep of everything inside his flat and that he is also probably responsible for paying the full share of any maintenance in communal areas!

If his kitchen falls apart, he can't call the freeholder for a new one.

It's probably very simple, especially considering that the bath is directly above the affected area. He needs to get off his lazy bottom, have some respect for his neighbours, and either pull off the bath panel himself, or pay a plumber to do so. The cost of remedy is probably cheaper than the excess on his insurance.

olly300

Christal some insurers will not cover leaking pipes in blocks of flats/converted houses under building insurance policies. They have done this to make their policies cheaper.

In a flat I was living in I was warned that if a pipe leaks, the management company would chase the flat owner where the leak originated if they refused to sort it out themselves. (I was actually the tenant but the management company posted letters through doors for all the occupants who lived in the building to read.)

Like Doozergirl said the first person you must contact is your neighbour. Do it now in writing as you have already contacted them verbally and keep a copy. Then if your neighbour still refuses to do anything, demand that the freeholder gets involved to prevent further damage to the structure of the building. Make sure you give the freeholder exact details and send them a copy of the letter and any replies between you and your neighbour.

If the freeholder refuses to help contact lease-advice.org