I find this shocking

Pobby

http://england.shelter.org.uk/campaigns_/why_we_campaign/the_housing_crisis/what_is_the_housing_crisis

As a baby boomer I was able to buy my first property in the south east with my wife at 25. Not a grotty little flat but a 3 bed semi. Don`t see a lot of that these days.

Ok, we now have very low rates of interest that would have been a laughable concept 10 years ago. However, many still find it hard to be able to buy, the living wage is not going to get you there even if you live out of the south east in many areas.

Yes it is clear that places like south wales and parts of the north are far more affordable if you can get a job that pays reasonably well.

For many that are living in rented property it is about time that a fairer system is introduced. Short hold tenancies are not the way. Also long winded evictions, on the other hand for bad tenants, I speak from some experience, just make things worse.

I am a great believer of properly funded state housing. not placing it in the hands of private landlords who may or may not stick to the rules, of which it seems are not as comprehensive as they should be.

The massive strain on housing benefits, low wages for many, hence tax credits seems to me to be a waste of taxes, keeping a system going. Not suggesting we can go back, I imagine a housing crash (which maybe 10 years ago was coming ) but was averted by propping up the market will be costly.

Successive governments have avoided the housing issue yet it is clear that for many it is going wrong.

cells

There is no UK wide housing problem. At least 2/3rds of the UK is cheap

Here is a post from me abuot 9 months ago explaing why and it holds true today too

Average social rents are ~£385 pm PLUS THEY GO UP YEARLY
Mortgage with 10% deposit 3% interest rate.

North East & North West average terrace price less than £70,000
18 year repayment mortgage, repayments of £378 a month

Yorkshire&Humbar Average terrace price is less than £79,000
21 year repayment mortgage (£380pm)

Wales average terrace price is less than £83,000
22 year repayment mortgage (£384pm)

E-Midlands & W-Midlands average terrace price is less than £90,000
25 year repayment mortgage (£384pm)


So all cheaper than the council rents and you get to keep the house at the end of the 18 - 25 year period with no rent or mortgage to pay. Also the mortgage is more or less fixed for the term while the social rents just keep going up (greedy social landlords!)

ruperts

There is no way those house prices are correct. I live in South Wales and if you want a habitable terrace within half an hour's commute to an area which has jobs you're looking at £130k minimum and more like £170k for a reasonable terrace in an area not riddled with crime.

Forget all notions of semi detached or detached houses unless you're on £50k and have another £50k spare for a deposit. And this is South Wales where houses are supposed to be cheap. Maybe they are cheap by London standards, but try telling the locals that when the average wage is £18k, nearly three times short of what is required to get a mortgage on the cheapest terrace in the worst areas.

Jack_Johnson_the_acorn

cells wrote: »

There is no UK wide housing problem. At least 2/3rds of the UK is cheap

North East & North West average terrace price less than £70,000
18 year repayment mortgage, repayments of £378 a month

North West - terraced house on a council estate is pretty grim, If you want to sell then you'll be waiting around for a while.

For a decent terrace it's north of £110,000.00 which I think is pretty reasonable. For a terrace that I would happily buy more like £140,000.00-£150,000.00.

Jobs are ok in the North West, either travel into Liverpool or Manchester for decent prospects.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Pobby wrote: »

I find this shocking.

I find many things shocking.

But prices rising because of a shortage of supply is never one of them - that's just blatantly obvious.

If you really want to make a difference then go out and persuade all your Boomer friends and relatives that we must build millions more houses, we must radically reduce planning restrictions, we must build on the green belt, and we must make it far easier for young people to get mortgages.

Only then will we build the houses we need.

And only when we build the houses we need will prices come down.

markharding557

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

I find many things shocking.

But prices rising because of a shortage of supply is never one of them - that's just blatantly obvious.

If you really want to make a difference then go out and persuade all your Boomer friends and relatives that we must build millions more houses, we must radically reduce planning restrictions, we must build on the green belt, and we must make it far easier for young people to get mortgages.


Only then will we build the houses we need.

And only when we build the houses we need will prices come down.

I am shocked at how incredibly correct this statement actually is.
Some of the older generation should be ashamed at how they oppose tooth and nail any development at all that provides housing and I despise the spineless council drones that pander to them.:mad:

cells

ruperts wrote: »

There is no way those house prices are correct. I live in South Wales and if you want a habitable terrace within half an hour's commute to an area which has jobs you're looking at £130k minimum and more like £170k for a reasonable terrace in an area not riddled with crime.

Forget all notions of semi detached or detached houses unless you're on £50k and have another £50k spare for a deposit. And this is South Wales where houses are supposed to be cheap. Maybe they are cheap by London standards, but try telling the locals that when the average wage is £18k, nearly three times short of what is required to get a mortgage on the cheapest terrace in the worst areas.

Wales average terrace £112k
Monthly mortgage £398
Monthly Full time male Wage £2,276 (£1,812 after tax)
Monthly mortgage payment ~22% of a mans take home pay or ~12% of a joint full time working median couple

Cheap, not by London standards but vs wages vs social rents vs build costs vs everything except prices of 20 years ago

ruperts

cells wrote: »

Wales average terrace £112k
Monthly mortgage £398
Monthly Full time male Wage £2,276 (£1,812 after tax)
Monthly mortgage payment ~22% of a mans take home pay or ~12% of a joint full time working median couple

Cheap, not by London standards but vs wages vs social rents vs build costs vs everything except prices of 20 years ago

Assuming those figures are correct then taking Wales as an example your original post was massively incorrect as I said. An average of £112k seems reasonable but don't forget that includes a large number of very low quality terraces in former mining areas where there are no jobs, certainly not any coming anywhere near the average salaries you've posted. If someone is prepared to live in a barely habitable terrace some hours away from where they work then provided their job pays at least the national average they've got a chance at raising a deposit within around five years of saving. Otherwise, forget it. That's a good situation you think?

missbiggles1

ruperts wrote: »

Assuming those figures are correct then taking Wales as an example your original post was massively incorrect as I said. An average of £112k seems reasonable but don't forget that includes a large number of very low quality terraces in former mining areas where there are no jobs, certainly not any coming anywhere near the average salaries you've posted. If someone is prepared to live in a barely habitable terrace some hours away from where they work then provided their job pays at least the national average they've got a chance at raising a deposit within around five years of saving. Otherwise, forget it. That's a good situation you think?

Surely FTBs always had to buy the lowest quality of houses and aren't most of the former mining areas within commuting distance of Cardiff and Swansea?

A 23 mile drive from Merthyr to Cardiff or a direct (if slow) rail line hardly puts them "hours away" from more affluent areas.

ruperts

missbiggles1 wrote: »

Surely FTBs always had to buy the lowest quality of houses and aren't most of the former mining areas within commuting distance of Cardiff and Swansea?

A 23 mile drive from Merthyr to Cardiff or a direct (if slow) rail line hardly puts them "hours away" from more affluent areas.

I don't believe the first statement is correct. A couple of decades ago it was common for FTB's on average salaries to be able to afford decent detached and semi-detached houses in good areas, while the worst terraces were bought by the lowest paid. Now, FTB's on average salaries struggle to buy even the lowest quality homes and the lowest paid can't afford to buy anything.

The distance from Merthyr to Cardiff may only be 23 miles but after decades of chronic underinvestment in transport infrastructure that commute takes well over an hour on a good day, often longer. The story is the same in other less wealthy areas across the UK where successive governments have failed to provide adequate infrastructure to less wealthy areas. On the rare occasion that a road or railway is improved and commute times fall to a more sensible level the prices of houses in the catchment are for that improvement immediately rocket, making them unaffordable once again.

Pobby

Shortage of supply in areas where people want to live is certainly a problem. My wife and her sister own a property in Reading. When valued 3 years ago it was £260,000, a similar house has just sold in the road for nearly £500,00. The town, being close to London, a 30 minute commute, is teaming with people. Many have arrived over the past few years. How they live or where they live beats me. I would think many are in multi occupational homes as the rents are very high.

I understand that Londoners are moving to Reading. Very near the train station there are huge high rise flats being built. Assuming 40 or 50 thousand pound a year income makes these flats affordable.

In contrast. Plymouth, where we are, a different story. Being miles away from the next city, Exeter, it pretty much depends on its own economy. A decent terrace is 130k upward. It does have a lot of over seas visitors many of them students as we have many further education facilities. However there is much student accommodation. Prices have barely changed since 2008, after the slight fall.

As any where, even London, there are poorly paid jobs but still prices are much more affordable for a decent city.