Smart Meters - Ask me anything!

[Deleted User]

Hi Beeringo, I am a meter reader for BG amongst other suppliers, good to hear you are interested in meter bypassing, me too !The amount of meter fiddling is absolutely rife now in the rough central terraces in Doncaster. People cannot understand why the suppliers sit back and allow it all to happen but they do !. I am in close touch with British Gas Revenue Protection and I am assured that the revenue lost to what are known as professional renters is far more than bypassing.Pro renters select properties with credit meters and not only do they cheat the landlord but they will get away with as much energy as possible before the supplier gets a warrant to fit prepay meters.This can take a couple of years sometimes. Smart meters will be able to pull the plug on debtors before the bill reaches into the thousands by switching the meters into prepay mode only. BG RPU boss is on record on BBC TV saying all customers are paying approx £60 a year extra funding for the free energy obtained by meter bypassing. I would think you could add at least another £60 a year with the thieving by professional rentals. I know smarts wont stop the knowledgeable pros like the Vietnamese who run the big cannabis farms but the little growers who traditionally just add a simple link behind the lower cover will find the job much much harder and the suppliers should know that the meter has been compromised . RPU tell me the standard cannabis grower steals approx £800 of electricity to grow a crop in 12 weeks.
Only 700 were prosecuted in 2015 for meter fiddling in the whole of the UK..I can show you 700 fiddling meters in a small area of central Doncaster.

Jacklx

During my apprenticeship I was told that Power Factor lag could not be accounted for with the meters of that time and factories etc. had to install Power Factor correction devices to reduce the lag aiming for a unity power factor. Lag was due to inductive devices such as motors etc. This was not so much a problem with domestic users who, in those days, had few items using electricity anyway. Things have changed and many domestic devices exhibit a 'low' power factor which can't be good news for the supplier. I wonder how these 'smart' meters measure power? Is it possible, seeing as they are computer based, they simply multiply Volts by Amps to come up with Watts, thus overcoming any power factor lag?

tdw197

beeringo wrote: »

Cant help there sorry! You'd have to know what meters OVO used and what contracts it has with communications providers

But... i would suggest if you want a smart meter, seeing as i imagine you will have 1 year with your new energy supplier or OVO, to go with a SMETS1 meter and come this time next year you could request a SMETS2 one... then you can switch freely and keep your smart-ness

Ovo use Secure Meters and communicate only with Secure's SMSC. It would need to be completely replaced to use as smart with any other supplier - this is the big issue with SMETS1 meters, there was some talk about trying to enroll them in the DCC, but I think this was shelved?

beeringo

sacsquacco wrote: »

Hi Beeringo, I am a meter reader for BG amongst other suppliers, good to hear you are interested in meter bypassing, me too !The amount of meter fiddling is absolutely rife now in the rough central terraces in Doncaster. People cannot understand why the suppliers sit back and allow it all to happen but they do !. I am in close touch with British Gas Revenue Protection and I am assured that the revenue lost to what are known as professional renters is far more than bypassing.Pro renters select properties with credit meters and not only do they cheat the landlord but they will get away with as much energy as possible before the supplier gets a warrant to fit prepay meters.This can take a couple of years sometimes. Smart meters will be able to pull the plug on debtors before the bill reaches into the thousands by switching the meters into prepay mode only. BG RPU boss is on record on BBC TV saying all customers are paying approx £60 a year extra funding for the free energy obtained by meter bypassing. I would think you could add at least another £60 a year with the thieving by professional rentals. I know smarts wont stop the knowledgeable pros like the Vietnamese who run the big cannabis farms but the little growers who traditionally just add a simple link behind the lower cover will find the job much much harder and the suppliers should know that the meter has been compromised . RPU tell me the standard cannabis grower steals approx £800 of electricity to grow a crop in 12 weeks.
Only 700 were prosecuted in 2015 for meter fiddling in the whole of the UK..I can show you 700 fiddling meters in a small area of central Doncaster.

Hi Sacsquacco,
Interesting read. I once did a talk to BG's RPU, explaining how their current smart meter stock from the manufacturer i used to work for had a bunch of alerts to help diagnose a possible tamper.

You're right though anyone stealing power and is smart about it will always rent from a property with an old style meter to simply bypass it, but over the years there will be less and less places to hide.

With smart meters able to send alerts for various tampers it will make life very difficult - i can't think of a way you could steal a large amount of electricity without the meter in some way knowing.

Only time will tell, but i would love to have the job of hunting down power theft sites - like some sort of detective

beeringo

Jacklx wrote: »

During my apprenticeship I was told that Power Factor lag could not be accounted for with the meters of that time and factories etc. had to install Power Factor correction devices to reduce the lag aiming for a unity power factor. Lag was due to inductive devices such as motors etc. This was not so much a problem with domestic users who, in those days, had few items using electricity anyway. Things have changed and many domestic devices exhibit a 'low' power factor which can't be good news for the supplier. I wonder how these 'smart' meters measure power? Is it possible, seeing as they are computer based, they simply multiply Volts by Amps to come up with Watts, thus overcoming any power factor lag?

That is a great question. I wish i could answer it but the inner workings of how a smart meter measures accurately (or any digital meter for that matter) remains property of each manufacturer. All i can say is that it is not as simple as multiplying Voltage and Current.

However a manufacturer implements their measurement system, they all have to get certified through what's known as the 'Measurement Instruments Directive' or MID.

Pub quiz fact: The M marking on a pint glass is also to show that glass has been MID certified, the number is the year of manufacture.

Meters are tested at an independent test house which tests their accuracy for all power measurements, including reactive and apparent. Most smart meters can indeed accurately measure all characteristics of the load including power factor and phase angle.

beeringo

tdw197 wrote: »

Ovo use Secure Meters and communicate only with Secure's SMSC. It would need to be completely replaced to use as smart with any other supplier - this is the big issue with SMETS1 meters, there was some talk about trying to enroll them in the DCC, but I think this was shelved?

The DCC enrolement program for SMETS1 meters is very much in full swing, but it is a very very long process, currently the plan needs to go out for a consultation phase. Expect these meters to be adopted before the end of the decade but not by much. 2019 probably.

Some good news though, Secure actually have quite a few suppliers as customers. It'd be worth asking the potential new supplier do they support Secure smart meters?

OPENSPACES

I have recently been provided with a smart meter by BG but initially the info provided did not make sense. BG initially said it was faulty and agreed to replace it. The engineer turned up and I said read this and tell me does it make sense. No he said. He then got onto his boss who eventually said that smart meters don't work on the Collective Fix tariff as it not one theirs ie BGs. So with any Money Saving negotiated tariff they wont work ? Correct

[Deleted User]

beeringo wrote: »

Hi, what do you mean by progressive and regressive tariffs? Do you mean tariffs that change with the time of day, or react to the price of generation?

Neither.

A neutral tariff would be one that has a flat rate per unit, so that if you use twice as much you pay twice as much etc. A regressive tariff is one where you pay less than twice as much for twice as much fuel, and you pay more than half if you use half as much, that is to say any tariff with a standing charge. The problem is that it penalises people who use the least fuel in order to pay a discount to those who use the most, a disincentive to save fuel.

Conversely, with a progressive tariff the frugal users get the discount and the profligate users pay for it. Not only does it reward the people who save energy, but it helps those in fuel poverty too. The graph below shows what I mean, the blue line is a neutral tariff, red is regressive (see how above average users pay less), and the green line is progressive (the frugal users get the discount instead). In the example shown the average user pays the same either way.

Jacklx

Further to my previous post on this subject. A friend has just had a 'smart' meter fitted, there is an indicator in the house which seems remarkably quick to respond, we switched on one of these low energy bulbs rated at 11 watts and the indicated consumption increased by 11 Watts, similarly it decreased by the same amount when we switched it off. I have a little gizmo which not only records Volts, Amps and Watts but also Power Factor. The power factor for this low energy bulb shows up as 0.6, Current 0.08 Amps. Volts (230) times amps = 18 Watts. I can't help but wonder if the meter which actually determines the consumption for billing purposes prefers to use 18 Watts rather than 11?
We hear that many users of 'smart' meters seem to think their electricity bills have increased since switching; could this be the cause of this?

OPENSPACES

BG have told me that smart meters wont work on tariffs negotiated by third parties. Is that correct or not?