HSBC ATM/Cash Machine Transaction Dispute

lozzo

I tried to withdraw £200 from an ATM within a HSBC in London. I would not have counted the money were it not for the fact that some of the notes came out at an odd angle and one of them was folded at the corner. It turned out there was only £160. I immediately registered a complaint with the cashier.

After auditing the machine HSBC wrote to me saying they could not find anything wrong and I would not be getting my money back:

"I regret to inform you that after considering your comments and those of my colleagues I am drawn to the same conclusion at the ATM Department. I also wish to inform you that the ATM owner has provided necessary documents which proves [sic] that no errors occurred on 19 July 2007."

Basically it seems that it's my word against theirs. They seem to believe that their systems are infallible. I know that they are not but I can't prove it. I have been a customer for over ten years and resent letters diplomatically calling me a liar.

I intend to (in HSBC parlance) "escalate my concerns to the next stage" by writing to the Senior Manager at the quality service team. Before I did this I was wondering if anyone had any advice. I am particularly interested in:

• How common is this problem? I have tried asking the Financial Ombudsman but they don't keep such detailed statistics.
• What are my best tactics for getting my money back?

I know it's only £40 but this has now become a point of principle! Any help much appreciated!

jonesMUFCforever

Write back to HSBC keep the letter polite but firm.
It is not worth it for them to lose a current account for £40.

Laurie-Al

Just a thought but did the cashier count the money that had come out the machine and if so if you went staight from the ATM to the counter it is possible that the security camera may have caught you on film. It could be possible that if you asked them to check the film it may be able to show that you couldn't have hidden the extra £40.

I know its a long shot but might be worth a try.

lozzo

That's a great idea! Is CCTV footage of me in the bank subject to the Data Protection Act?

:T

jonesMUFCforever

lozzo wrote: »

That's a great idea! Is CCTV footage of me in the bank subject to the Data Protection Act?

:T

Yes and in my experience won't prove anything either way.
The only people who get to see the tapes other than staff are the police (and they have to submit a written application).

newfoundglory

You could make a data subject access request under Section 7(1) of the Data Protection Act 1998, to see the tapes with you on it (as its technically personal data which could be used to identify you). They would however have to block/obscure out anyone else in the film other than yourself to protect their privacy, and they would charge you £10 which is the statutory fee for making such a request.

If you want to make a request like this, you should do it ASAP, and perhaps fax the request to the information compliance team at HQ or the manager at the location in question. You should first identify the business or branch which holds this CCTV footage and give them as much information about date/time as poss.

lozzo

newfoundglory wrote: »

they would charge you £10 which is the statutory fee for making such a request.

If they don't cave in (I'm sending my second letter tomorrow) I'll end up taking it to the Financial Ombudsman. Can I suggest reviewing the tapes to them and avoid paying the £10 fee?

Also, how long do they keep the tapes for?

Yellabowley

In my experience (I'm a police officer so I have plenty!) most places keep the cctv for a month to 42 days but it depends on the system. And don't expect that they'll have any covering the machine.

The other problem is that the majority of cctv systems work on a series of stills. So the camera takes a photo every second. That's good enough to identify an offender in a fraudulent transaction but to show that you didn't pocket any cash it's useless. There'll be plenty of time between shots for you to have stashed some cash. It'll also need to be continuous (no blind spots while you walk into the branch) for it to be of any evidential use whatsoever.

Don't hang your hopes on cctv. It might be worth a try but I doubt it.

The only thing that would prove your case would be the paper trail of the machine.

For Example:
The bank will have put £10000 into the machine in the morning. £5000 will have shown to have been withdrawn. If when they refilled the machine it actually had £5040 left in, then your case is made. Problem is this relies on the honesty of the staff, but you would hope to have that in a Bank.

lozzo

Yellabowley wrote: »

The bank will have put £10000 into the machine in the morning. £5000 will have shown to have been withdrawn. If when they refilled the machine it actually had £5040 left in, then your case is made. Problem is this relies on the honesty of the staff, but you would hope to have that in a Bank.

The problem is, they say all their checks show there was no error. I know this is wrong, but can't prove it. I'm interested to know how sophisticated the auditing is - is it simply a case of the machine balancing at the end?

Perhaps the machine dolled out too much money to someone else?

newfoundglory

lozzo wrote: »

Can I suggest reviewing the tapes to them and avoid paying the £10 fee?

Its likely they would invite you to review the tape for the £10, assuming they still have it.... you would probably have to request a copy if you wanted one.

Yellabowley

I've had 2 similar things (completely different circumstances though) with Mercedes-Benz and Singlepoint.

Merc serviced my car and then it flooded due to a bent drainage hose.

They said they didn't do it and wheeled out the techinician to say he didn't do it.

I knew that no-one else had access to my car in the mean time but that's my word against theirs. I went all the way to court but lost.

Also singlepoint once said I made a £40 phone call from Spain. I only once turned the phone on while I was away to get a number out and that was it, but they had the evidence to say I made a call!! I had to pay up.

Yours sounds similar. You say it only gave you £160. They say it gave you £200 and have the paperwork to back it up.

It's a nightmare.