Eviction notice served

mumoftwins

teeni wrote: »

it is when a decison is so unreasonable that no other person would have reached the same decision based on the same facts.

It is a legitimate legal reason to request a s204 appeal at county court if review fails.

If this happens you r solicitor will advise you on whether you ahev a case to fight and whether it is worth applying for legal aid to cover costs. You have to have full legal cert to cover costs of applying to the court for permission to appeal and this will only be granted if you have a reasoonable case.

I think I have mentioned before that an appeal to court is only available on a point of law and not because you have disagreed with the decision. It is a much more stringent test.

sorry I know you didn't ask all that but i got carried away ( please dont say i probably should be)

Thanks Teeni. Have also checked out some info on the Shapla v Birmingham case. I still don't understand how someone sitting at a desk in some Godforsaken place can make an accurate assessment of someone like me who has a mental health problem without actually seeing them!

teeni

exactly. that is the whole point of this decision.

The Birmingham council took the opinion of de Keen over the clients own drs.

the court said they can no longer do this unless the now medical doctor has examined you .

The court suggests that if that s not possible that they should speak to your own medical advisors and make their decision based on that. they do not have to agree with it though just show that they have considered it and if they disagree, give their reasons why x

beccabooboo

Also, now i think about it, i don't think I have ever come across a case where Now Medical have recommended to an Authority that somebody is vulnerable and therefore in Priority need. They seem to take their fee and recommend no vulnerability!!!!

Viv

Question please for all you 'in the know people' What exactly is at issue here, I mean if everything goes against MOT where will she (and the twins) then live? And if everything goes against Dacorum what do they then have to do?
And who pays for what?
Also with that terrible story this week of the Mum of 2 week old twins that ran onto the motorway in her pyjamas and got killed by a lorry- They reported that she had a few signs of Post natal depression but appeared normal and happy!! How desperate and unhinged must she have been yet still appeared normal. If all mental health problems were visible to the layman there would be no suicides.
I also think how I would cope with MOT's problems I am sure that myself and my home would be a complete mess I would probably become alcoholic but my kids would be immaculate and at school and behaving like normal but there is no way I could deal with home finances and all this fighting. We are all different, my parents ran a childrens home for the kids of Mums that couldn't cope with them when times got hard (amongst other reasons of course).
The now medical report seems more like a soap opera script than real life with real people. That Ian Beales wife copes so you must be able to!! and your life is easy compared to hers. I remain confident this will have a good ending VivXX PS how do I pm you??

silvercar

I mean if everything goes against MOT where will she (and the twins) then live? And if everything goes against Dacorum what do they then have to do?

In reverse order, if the appeal find against dacorum, MoT and twins remain in their emergency accomodation until Dacorum offer them something more suitable and long term.

If Dacorum win in appeal then MoT will has already been given notice to leave the emergency accomodation on a certain date (can't remember exactly when but January). Dacorum will have judged that MoT made herself "intentionally homeless" and therefore the council have no obligation to provide housing.

MoT would then be obliged to find herself accomodation in the private rented sector. This would prove difficult with no landlord reference and no employment plus, with MoTs health difficulties she needs the security of long term housing rather than 6 month ASTs.

bringmeshoes

Hi MOT just as you "outwardly appears capable" i outwardly appear fat but really i am a celebrity size 0 inside!!
seriously tho i have suffered with depression for many years but not many people know abot this and those people i have told have been shocked because to them i appear happy and am always the one cracking jokes and am the life of the party. i think that when you suffer with mental illnesses such as depression and stress appearing to the outside world that everything is normal is just part of the coping mechanism, even if you can't cope with certain aspects of everyday life the one thing you can control is how you appear to people.
anyway now that i have given my medical tuppence worth sedning you big hugs

wherediditallgo

kethry wrote: »

thanks wherediditallgo for all that.. just out of curiosity: i have a number of mental health problems, which i ain't about to go into on here (mostly cos this isn't my thread!) and i saw someone who was a member of a CMHT a few years ago. It got to the point where she felt (after about 5 visits) that she could no longer really help me and that my next "stage", if you like, was group therapy.. the only problem is that i am deaf: group therapy, to me, is my ultimate nightmare - sitting in a group, not understanding what is going on, feeling obliged to unburden myself to a group of people i have no emotional connection with... and she just could not seem to understand that, mostly because (despite my deafness) i cope well in a one to one, quiet room setting, and gave the distinct impression that she thought i was exaggerating/faking it. Needless to say i was most put off and didn't go back for further appointments and since then, i've coped alone. Its not the kind of mental health issues that needs medication, btw. I didn't complain at the time as i just.. well. didn't have the energy to fight it i suppose.

any ideas?

Many thanks -

keth
xx

I'll PM you.

xadoc

Goodness. I found this thread yesterday and it has taken me 2 days to read through it (and I confess I only religiously read MOTs and I-Ts posts (thanks for quoting posts you reply to - it made my life easier!) and interesting-looking ones in between) there should be some form of disclaimer at the beginning about harrowing nature and hours needed to get fully 'into' it!!
Only joking.
MOT, twins, I-T, you're all inspirational. Don't give up the fight (I know you have no intention of doing so). Despite this latest setback you have a lot of good people on your side and this can only be a last-ditch attempt from them to try to uphold their own ridiculous decision.

Me thinks Mrs 'I've only lost 2 appeals in the last year' is about to lose the first appeal of this year. Here's hoping.

italian-tony

Thanks everyone for some amazingly useful posts. Boy you are an intelligent, well informed bunch of lovelies! (Hope that doesn't sound condescending) I have a print copy of the Shala v Birmingham CC judgement and it is going to be very useful. If I'd thought of it earlier I could have asked NOW Medical under the FoI Act how many decisions they had made in favour of the applicants.

Floss2 re England -v- Italy. I am always torn whenever these two countries meet, whether it be football or rugby (although I'm not really a follower of either sport). In the end I am happy whoever wins, either way. I was in Italy when they won the world cup (1982 I think) and the celebrations in my family's village were amazing. Plenty fireworks and plentier vino.

Bona Note all.

Wol2

Dearest MOT

Thank you for your kind words. It helps me to know that in going public, I might be able to provide some type of "validation" to others (hard word but describes it best and the effect was v.important to me when I received it in my situation) and perhaps therefore reassurance to someone else.

MOT -You are not alone, there is nothing "different" or "wrong" about who you are compared to the rest of the human race - and there are plenty of other people like you (and me) who have suffered this type of situation and its repercussions, whatever they may have been, - maybe others just haven't found their way to this thread yet.

Normally I would want to be here for you offering practical and legal advice on your current situation (ask my friends they will support this!) . However, for the first time in my life I find myself only capable of providing something which I hope will be positive on an emotional level rather than "logical" or practical- (perhaps giving an indication of my current state of balance - logic vs emotions)

What I feel personally, is that you have clearly demonstrated time and again on this thread your concern for other people and their feelings - you are a person who has a kind and loving heart. Despite everything you are having to deal with, you have demonstrated you are capable even now to take time out for other people and care about them. So thank you for taking the time to reply personally to me. You are indeed a very special lady and I'm sure we are all supporting you because we recognise that - i.e. how valuable you are as a person, as a human being.

And I also think all your supporters are also special people - because they also are showing they CARE about your emotional wellbeing and how special you are, and are doing what they can, in their own ways and with their own skills and experience, whether practical or emotional, to offer whatever help they are able to provide.

This type of "mental fog" situation, and subsequent practical consequences, could happen to ANYONE - at any time - when they are least expecting it! Shock, horror - it has happened to me!! My friends, who have always known me as a strong individual and always relied on me to be there to support them, are all still reeling from the fact that I had completely collapsed last year. Some of them are devastated (and resentful!) about the fact that suddenly I am needing their support and that I am not there to provide support for them. Some have not been able to cope....the true friends are the ones who are still here with me, and believe me there's not many of those left!! However I hope, like me, that you will be (are) amazed at where support comes from when you least expect it and didn't go looking for it!!

I truly believe that the fact that these events have happened doesn't mean in any way one should consider oneself as a lesser individual, a "less worthy" person or even a "lesser" human being... or, most importantly, that there is anything inherantly wrong with or "weak" about one. (Difficult once the "mental health" stuff gets brought in with all its qualifications and definitions) Perhaps given time,we might be able to think that
a) We have been going through a phase of "acute mental distress" owing to a "series of unfortunate events"
b) it's had practical repurcussions, and unfortunately
c) we now have to deal with them the best we can given the fact that
d) the system itself may be inherently wrong in it's approach (guidelines) in the first place.

The way I personally relate to your predicament, (and I may be wrong) is that soon, you will find yourself in yet another (next court case or appeal) situation where people are, and will be, passing judgements which could have serious impact on you and your family's security and future... and ultimately you may feel this reflects upon how you perceive yourself as a human being. However!!!...These people may have never been in your situation (and clearly from their responses to date, may not even realise how lucky they are not to have had to "live" your experience). They may not actually be capable, and certainly don't have the right in their current postiions, to mke any type of judgement of you as a person - all they will (should) be doing is demonstrating their ability to "interpret the rules (i.e. English Law)" . I can understand if you feel it's very difficult to understand my current thoughts, given that these people, potentially sitting in judgement over your future, may be perceived to have been bestowed with the capacity and authority to mete out decisions that ultimately for you and your situation could be regarded as utterly "inhumane". We here on the thread, in light of our support for you, might be (are?) all asking over the next few days-Don't these people have feelings - don't they have any humanity?

However unfortunately the fact is that this is "the system" - and I'm sure we all appreciate it can be cruel. BUT... it's clear to me (fact!!) that you have a great bunch of supporters who are giving you fantastic and extremely relevant advice on how to address the system on its own terms. And most importantly - whatever the outcome - (and I get a good feeling from reading the posts that it could be positive) - this decision will never be, (SHOULD not be) in any way, a decision on who you are as a person. That decision, I think, has actually already been made - BY ALL OF US HERE!! You are a very special and valued person - all of us agree - fact - I'm sure that is why we are all here. And, if all of us are here demonstrating that fact, (by the support we are offering), then perhaps it might be useful to then consider (at some point in the future) the possibility that we might eventually be seen to represent a more powerful voice (influence/validation) for you, ref who you are as a person, than the two or three "people" who are going to be making a decision "about the rules" next week? (yeah I know this is a tough one to deal with - give it time - we can mull that one over off line if you like!!)

I know this may be a difficult thing to take on board at the moment, especially in view of imminent events, (personally I am still struggling with that last concept myself!). But what I do know is that in my situation, I am starting to learn to trust, and take hope from, my equivalent of "the posters on the thread" rather than the previous reference point (i.e. "the people in authority making decisions") in terms of my feelings about myself, who I am as a human being, and how other people might peceive me.

After all, the "authority figures" are no less or no more in the "human beings stakes" than you or I. And in any case what demonstration have these "decision makers" made to show they have any care or empathy for me (you) as a person or as a human being? What right have they got to even have their deliberations ( as opposed to their underlying characters) "validated" as "human" just by virtue of the fact that they have been given "authority"

And finally I would like to acknowledge positively the former type of person, (for you, the posters on the thread), who have made the effort and time to engage and help, demonstrating their personal commitment to my (your?) situation and in doing so recognised and validated me (you?) as a special person worthy of their time, effort, comitment and love. This type of validation has been invaluable for me after all the rejections I have suffered over the last few months from people who I considered were important to me.... whose judgement I trusted.

So, this is probably the first (and last potentially) "emotional" post I shall make before i revert to the logical brain-orientated input I am more known for. (Yes, I am rather reticent abut publically communicating emotional stuff normally so this is a first for me!). I sincerely hope I haven't offended anyone, especially you, nor will I be perceived by anyone to be trying to hijack your current situation - that is not my intent. I merely wish to provide perhaps a bit of emotional input/insight to you from someone whose has been in a relevant situation recently and would hope that her own experience might prove useful in some form to someone else . It in no way wants to attempt to detract from the extremely valuable information and support that continues to be provided to you and the situation you currently find yourself in.

Good luck to a very special person!

Love (and heart warming admiration) to posters and you, MOT, alike.
Wol2