Denied access to Universal Credit because of where I live

teddysmum

The OP is female and her partner male. She comments that they are 'back to front' in that she was the greater earner.

Starsphinx

Oh heck looks like I have caused chaos - my apologies I struggle to think straight which confuses :embarasse.

Right I am female and my partner male.

I do not need 35 hours a week care each and every week and while on some weeks I need more than 35 hours the DWP is more interested in the weeks I dont. I do not receive DLA/PIP, I did apply once and was refused and to be brutally honest the stress and indignity of making a claim is too much. We can and do manage on ESA alone and would rather be at least partially supporting ourselves.

It is definitely income based ESA as I have been ill for nearly 12 years now (was moved from WRAG to support group at last medical)

Baza52 - I guess I have not been very clear. My partner and I do not have any wages but are on benefits. When the children were in education the rent was covered entirely by housing benefit. When my sons left education and started work HB assessed their wages and made deductions. The deductions are such that when both are here I receive no housing benefit whatsoever so depend on the boys to pay all of the rent. I do not choose for them to pay the rent and I do not have enough money out of ordinary benefits to pay the rent. It is how the system works.

I have come here to get peoples input because I do not want to be making my children responsible for all of the rent. I am stuck in a system that leaves me no flexibility to try and become even partially self supporting, in a system that has rigid rules that actively prevent certain income raising. At the same time there is a new system available just 10 miles down the road which offers the flexibility and responsiveness needed which would allow my family to start providing more for themselves but I am not going to benefit from that for 2 years. I would like to find out if there is anyway I can get into the new system now - or if I can challenge the government for stopping me benefiting.

Icequeen99

Starsphinx wrote: »

Oh heck looks like I have caused chaos - my apologies I struggle to think straight which confuses :embarasse.

Right I am female and my partner male.

I do not need 35 hours a week care each and every week and while on some weeks I need more than 35 hours the DWP is more interested in the weeks I dont. I do not receive DLA/PIP, I did apply once and was refused and to be brutally honest the stress and indignity of making a claim is too much. We can and do manage on ESA alone and would rather be at least partially supporting ourselves.

It is definitely income based ESA as I have been ill for nearly 12 years now (was moved from WRAG to support group at last medical)

Baza52 - I guess I have not been very clear. My partner and I do not have any wages but are on benefits. When the children were in education the rent was covered entirely by housing benefit. When my sons left education and started work HB assessed their wages and made deductions. The deductions are such that when both are here I receive no housing benefit whatsoever so depend on the boys to pay all of the rent. I do not choose for them to pay the rent and I do not have enough money out of ordinary benefits to pay the rent. It is how the system works.

I have come here to get peoples input because I do not want to be making my children responsible for all of the rent. I am stuck in a system that leaves me no flexibility to try and become even partially self supporting, in a system that has rigid rules that actively prevent certain income raising. At the same time there is a new system available just 10 miles down the road which offers the flexibility and responsiveness needed which would allow my family to start providing more for themselves but I am not going to benefit from that for 2 years. I would like to find out if there is anyway I can get into the new system now - or if I can challenge the government for stopping me benefiting.

What have you used to calculate your UC position?

There are still non-dependent deductions in UC and although you can keep all of the rent (and not be subject to the £20 rule) they will not be counted towards occupancy http://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/Universal-Credit-Sub-Tenants. Have you taken that into consideration?

I am not sure what you would do to challenge it. Speak to your MP maybe?

But as I say, UC is complex. I would make sure you get some proper advice, make sure you haven't overlooked any of the rules and carefully checked the conditionality rules especially when care needs seem to be constantly changing.

IQ

Starsphinx

It is just a case of not having money deducted twice. I mean if I could get £150 a week from children and lodger at the moment and then claim housing benefit I would not be any financially different from how I am getting the money from ESA and claiming housing benefit. Or is I could get £126 a week from children/lodger and claim ESA I would be the same however the present or old system says if the money comes to me from "rent" (incidentally I would charge my children nominal rent if I was a millionaire as I believe they need to know TANSTAAFL) it is deducted twice so I cant claim ESA because I have an income and I cant claim housing benefit because it has to have non dependent deductions. Under UC this would not happen - UC starts with a total figure you need to live if you have no income - from which you pay your rent yourself etc - and then looks at any income and after a certain amount (which is higher than ESA for a start) deducts that income at something less than a pound per pound. One thing I did forget to mention regards the lodger was if I was on JSA I could charge more rent because it would only deduct half of anything over £20.

I mean for my personal situation it is the whole flexibility thing that would put us significantly better off because of my OH being able to earn self employed when I am OK but I would not be so angry about having to wait for that. What is annoying the hell out of me is a system that says I must lose £82 because of my son getting a good job but I cannot charge a lodger any more than £20 without losing out. I challenge any loving (and proud) parent to look a child in the eye and tell them you are going to charge them 4 times the amount you are charging a non child without getting spitting furious about it - and that is before the knowledge that other parents can ask equal amounts of rent in the same situation.

xylophone

It is likely though that your son is paying less to you than he would have to pay if he were renting privately?

And he is probably more comfortable at home than he would be elsewhere?

Confuseddot

Is universal credit taking on my complex cases now ? I thought it was just doing simple single what would have been JSA claims ?

NeilCr

In some areas they are taking on more complex cases

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/universal-credit/before-you-apply/universal-credit-eligibility/


I must say that the OP is the first person I have come across who wants to go on to UC. There is a general dread and suspicion of it

As to what she can do about it I suspect nothing other than, as suggested, contacting her MP. I went to a briefing about UC in our area some time ago. They talked about doing the roll out pretty slowly and there were things like IT and staff training to take into account. If they start accepting clients when they are not ready there will be even more chaos

iammumtoone

OP I understand where you are coming from how unfair to charge your children more than a lodger but what I don't understand is why you are doing this. Yes you will lose some money in benifits buy you won't be worse off as the lodger will be paying what you lose. Just charge them all the same if you lose pound for pound you will end up with same amount and be supporting yourself more not needing to take so much from the state.

Starsphinx

iammumtoone wrote: »

OP I understand where you are coming from how unfair to charge your children more than a lodger but what I don't understand is why you are doing this. Yes you will lose some money in benifits buy you won't be worse off as the lodger will be paying what you lose. Just charge them all the same if you lose pound for pound you will end up with same amount and be supporting yourself more not needing to take so much from the state.

Put quite simply because long experience tells me that if do such a thing it will result in DWP "mistakes" which will mean either the benefit I am entitled to not getting paid and/or them deciding there has been an overpayment meaning I am further in debt. It is the same reason my OH does not take odd work which we would declare.

I know someone said earlier I seem to be the only person wanting UC but I honestly cannot understand why this. Having been unemployed when I was much younger and tried to take and declare agency work thus experiencing the complete disaster that system is and having seen the economy change to much more temporary and part time jobs the idea of a benefit that can be updated in real time and which does not require stopping and starting claims with all the attendant delays is brilliant. To have a system where benefit is on a gradient meaning the more earned the more kept should have everyones support.

I do not understand half the objections to it and suspect many of the problems with it have been because of groups trying to get it stopped completely rather than looking at it and pointing out specific problems and then trying to help remove the problem while supporting the whole.

allison445

The non dependent deductions were raised a few years ago in my opinion to stupid amounts I have 2 grown up kids on good incomes unfortunately due to illness I have been claiming esa since dec 2015.
I receive no housing benefit as the deductions for the 2 grown up children is more than the weekly rent,
On universal credits the non dependent deduction is £69.37 a month regardless of income level which is a lot less than the £75.60 a week currently deducted for 1 of my children.
On the other side the non dependent deduction for low earnings will be more on universal credits.
I just have to grin and bear it as there's not a lot I can do and I hope it wont be for much longer as I plan to return to work asap.