Help on credit cards

Yorkshireman99

securityguy wrote: »

That is only your problem if you make it so.

The estate is clearly insolvent. You are entitled to have reasonable funeral expenses paid before pretty much everything else, and after that, as you are not the executor/administrator, what the creditors do is their problem. They are not entitled to any information from you other than the details of the money used for the funeral. You simply sort out the payment for the funeral and then leave them to it.

Wrong again. The creditors are entitled to know what funds there are in the estate. How else could the administer it?

securityguy

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

Wrong again. The creditors are entitled to know what funds there are in the estate. How else could the administer it?

Of course they're entitled to know. But it's their problem to find out. The OP isn't the administrator. Nor am I. Nor are you. What makes the people who are applying to be executors have any more right to demand that information from the OP than from you or me?

Someone's parent dies. That person declines to administer the estate. What further responsibility do they have? They aren't the administrator, and that they happen to be a relative is irrelevant. As you and others point out, the correct response to letters from creditors is "I am not the administrator".

Turbogal

Is there any sort of pro forma letter in existence for this situation? If not would I just word it that I am refusing to administer the estate as it is insolvent?

Yorkshireman99

Just do that.

Yorkshireman99

securityguy wrote: »

Of course they're entitled to know. But it's their problem to find out. The OP isn't the administrator. Nor am I. Nor are you. What makes the people who are applying to be executors have any more right to demand that information from the OP than from you or me?

Someone's parent dies. That person declines to administer the estate. What further responsibility do they have? They aren't the administrator, and that they happen to be a relative is irrelevant. As you and others point out, the correct response to letters from creditors is "I am not the administrator".

Being bloody minded is not going to help. Anyone seeking to administer the estate is entitled to be told what the estate assets are. If they want to a creditor can go to court and force the information to be given. That is not likely to be a pleasant experience for the OP and in just not needed. It may be that the creditors decide to write the debts off in which case the OP will probably be better off. In fact there are few situations in life where being bloody minded actual helps. Being polite and helpful often pay dividends.

securityguy

"Anyone seeking to administer the estate is entitled to be told what the estate assets are. If they want to a creditor can go to court and force the information to be given."

They can't.

If we're looking for a legal basis for this, I refer you to section 3 of the case handbook for deceased insolvents, published by BIS. Creditors have no locus to go to court: the power to demand information from personal representatives resides with the official receiver, so prior to any such request someone would have to have sought and obtained a bankruptcy order from a court. They are hardly going to do that for a few grand in credit card debts, as they would spend more than that simply petitioning for the insolvency order.

https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/casehelpmanual/D/DeceasedInsolvents.htm

Where there is no personal representative or administrator, the official receiver should contact the closest surviving relative of the deceased debtor. Where this Part refers to personal representative, it should be taken as meaning the personal representative, administrator or closest surviving relative as applicable.

If a creditor sought a bankruptcy order against the estate, and could convince a court to issue it and that I had information relevant, then I would take legal advice and respond appropriately. But I cannot find any reference to cases like that happening other than massive bankruptcies of company directors who die, Maxwell-style, with huge assets and liabilities. The official receiver is not going to be involved in a case involving two grand of credit card debts, because the cost of phoning them up and saying "Good Morning" would be instantly more expensive than the debts.

Yorkshireman99

All I can say is that the advice I have had from an insolvency practitioner is that an individual creditor can apply to obtain the information without lodging a bankruptcy petition. Frankly I would rather take her word than that of an unqualified and unknown internet poster.

securityguy

"All I can say is that the advice I have had from an insolvency practitioner is that an individual creditor can apply to obtain the information"

You can apply to be made King of Siam. The question is whether a court will grant your request, and what an order making you the King of Siam is worth.

To be clear: you are claiming that if someone replies to a letter from a creditor of an insolvent, intestate estate simply saying "I am not the administrator and therefore can be of not further help", then if they happen to be the nearest relative that a court can demand that they produce information, and enforce that with a contempt of court action? Seriously? You don't think that would make the newspapers and stuff?

TW1234

The key lies within the plans insurance terms and payment of claim.
. If the plan proceeds were given to the OP as outright beneficiary, then the OP can chose to pay (or even not pay!) the funeral costs, retain any balance and not accept a role as administrator. There is then nothing in the estate for the creditors to receive and there is no administrator.
If the insurance has been paid to the OP as the administrator, or with conditions about the use of the payment, then the Op has taken responsibility for dealing with the intestate and insolvent estate, including paying the residue after funeral costs (in proportion) to the creditors.

Yorkshireman99

securityguy wrote: »

"All I can say is that the advice I have had from an insolvency practitioner is that an individual creditor can apply to obtain the information"

You can apply to be made King of Siam. The question is whether a court will grant your request, and what an order making you the King of Siam is worth.

To be clear: you are claiming that if someone replies to a letter from a creditor of an insolvent, intestate estate simply saying "I am not the administrator and therefore can be of not further help", then if they happen to be the nearest relative that a court can demand that they produce information, and enforce that with a contempt of court action? Seriously? You don't think that would make the newspapers and stuff?

You are missing the point as usual. Given advice from a professional in the filed and an anonymous person on an internet forum then only a fool would ignore the professional advice.