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HMRC Address Nightmare
Parsley26
Posts: 1 Newbie
Hello MSE,
Looking for some advice here as HMRC are trying to fine me rather a lot of money. I moved house in 2012 from House A to B and in 2015 from House B to C. Early this year (2016) I got a letter at House C from HMRC telling me I owed them £300 for filing my 2012/13 tax return late. I've never been a self assessor, always paid through PAYE, and never had contact with HMRC before, so assumed it was in error and rang them up.
This is where the scary bit began. Turns out I underpaid tax by nearly £2k in 2012/13 and they'd sent letters about this in 2013 to House A, where I no longer lived. The underpayment was the result of two jobs overlapping for a couple of months. Because I didn't reply, they sent letters to tell me they now expected me to do a self assessment tax return for that year (I have no idea why), still to House A, and started fining me for doing the tax return late. This continued to 2016, when they caught up with me at House C. Turns out I also overpaid tax in 2013/14 and 14/15 , and they sent cheques for that to House A, which obviously I never cashed as I never got them.
After much angst I completed the tax return (no one in my family or friends has ever done one before) and sent that off, Paid the tax due, got back the over paid tax and appealed the late filing fees, on the basis that they were sending mail to the wrong address. My employer had the correct addresses. Everyone said that shouldn't be a problem. However, HMRC have now written back, rejected my appeal as they say I should have told them I'd moved (despite having no previous contact with them), and upped my fine to £2.3k, on the basis that my tax return was three years late AND they charged a percentage of the unpaid tax.
I've talked to my employer and they reckon it's my fault for not updating HMRC with my address, even though I'd never had contact with them before. My old employer just says I'm off their books now and they can't help. I get one more appeal but I don't know what more to tell them, other than tons of evidence about where I did and didn't live. Advice online suggests I should pay the fine (ouch) then appeal and hope for a refund to stop interest accruing or the fine getting bigger. No one in my family knows anything about how to deal with this, we've all just been PAYE for years and I'm the first to have a high enough wage to pay 40% tax. I'm really scared about the fine... help?
Looking for some advice here as HMRC are trying to fine me rather a lot of money. I moved house in 2012 from House A to B and in 2015 from House B to C. Early this year (2016) I got a letter at House C from HMRC telling me I owed them £300 for filing my 2012/13 tax return late. I've never been a self assessor, always paid through PAYE, and never had contact with HMRC before, so assumed it was in error and rang them up.
This is where the scary bit began. Turns out I underpaid tax by nearly £2k in 2012/13 and they'd sent letters about this in 2013 to House A, where I no longer lived. The underpayment was the result of two jobs overlapping for a couple of months. Because I didn't reply, they sent letters to tell me they now expected me to do a self assessment tax return for that year (I have no idea why), still to House A, and started fining me for doing the tax return late. This continued to 2016, when they caught up with me at House C. Turns out I also overpaid tax in 2013/14 and 14/15 , and they sent cheques for that to House A, which obviously I never cashed as I never got them.
After much angst I completed the tax return (no one in my family or friends has ever done one before) and sent that off, Paid the tax due, got back the over paid tax and appealed the late filing fees, on the basis that they were sending mail to the wrong address. My employer had the correct addresses. Everyone said that shouldn't be a problem. However, HMRC have now written back, rejected my appeal as they say I should have told them I'd moved (despite having no previous contact with them), and upped my fine to £2.3k, on the basis that my tax return was three years late AND they charged a percentage of the unpaid tax.
I've talked to my employer and they reckon it's my fault for not updating HMRC with my address, even though I'd never had contact with them before. My old employer just says I'm off their books now and they can't help. I get one more appeal but I don't know what more to tell them, other than tons of evidence about where I did and didn't live. Advice online suggests I should pay the fine (ouch) then appeal and hope for a refund to stop interest accruing or the fine getting bigger. No one in my family knows anything about how to deal with this, we've all just been PAYE for years and I'm the first to have a high enough wage to pay 40% tax. I'm really scared about the fine... help?
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Comments
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I think there's an independent arbitrator available in cases such as this where HMRC are attempting to thieve money off innocent tax payers.
Also, if you have no contact with HMRC, being on PAYE, are you obliged to update them if you move? I never have done. Surely its down to your employer.0 -
Also, if you have no contact with HMRC, being on PAYE, are you obliged to update them if you move? I never have done. Surely its down to your employer.
Yes, you are obliged to, for you own protection if nothing else, i.e. to avoid this kind of problem happening.
As to it being the employer's responsibility - Why? and How? HMRC may well have picked up a different address for an employee in the past from the end of year P60 (actually P11) forms, but there's no form for an employer to fill in and submit for an address change. In the modern system, such forms aren't submitted to HMRC anymore - instead there's just a monthly/weekly return of amounts paid and tax/nic deducted.
Every individual is responsible for their own tax affairs. There are loads of checklists all over the internet with all the people you need to tell when you move, such as DVLA, utility firms, banks, pension firms, etc., etc. It's also regularly recommended to set up a royal mail redirection for a few months to catch any correspondence from people you may have forgotten to tell.
HMRC website gives instructions for the taxpayer to tell them of a different address:-
https://www.gov.uk/tell-hmrc-change-of-details/change-name-or-address
To the OP, by all means appeal and hope that they're lenient to you, but unfortunately, the strict letter of the law means you're liable as you didn't keep them up to date, so it's hardly their fault they've been unable to contact you. From their point of view, it seems you've been ignoring them.0 -
Yes, you are obliged to, for you own protection if nothing else, i.e. to avoid this kind of problem happening.
As to it being the employer's responsibility - Why? and How? HMRC may well have picked up a different address for an employee in the past from the end of year P60 (actually P11) forms, but there's no form for an employer to fill in and submit for an address change. In the modern system, such forms aren't submitted to HMRC anymore - instead there's just a monthly/weekly return of amounts paid and tax/nic deducted.
Every individual is responsible for their own tax affairs. There are loads of checklists all over the internet with all the people you need to tell when you move, such as DVLA, utility firms, banks, pension firms, etc., etc. It's also regularly recommended to set up a royal mail redirection for a few months to catch any correspondence from people you may have forgotten to tell.
HMRC website gives instructions for the taxpayer to tell them of a different address:-
https://www.gov.uk/tell-hmrc-change-of-details/change-name-or-address
To the OP, by all means appeal and hope that they're lenient to you, but unfortunately, the strict letter of the law means you're liable as you didn't keep them up to date, so it's hardly their fault they've been unable to contact you. From their point of view, it seems you've been ignoring them.
What's the applicable legislation here obliging you to do so (and presumably making it an offence if you don't)?0 -
What's the applicable legislation here obliging you to do so (and presumably making it an offence if you don't)?
Why would there need to be any legislation? And what offence (or indeed punishment) do you think would apply? There is no obligation to update your address, but the failure to advise a new address simply means that HMRC will send mail to the last address they have, which can result in the mess that the OP finds themself in. It's not always somebody else's fault you know.0 -
Why would there need to be any legislation? And what offence (or indeed punishment) do you think would apply? There is no obligation to update your address, but the failure to advise a new address simply means that HMRC will send mail to the last address they have, which can result in the mess that the OP finds themself in. It's not always somebody else's fault you know.
Well actually that's what I thought. But someone came along to say you were obliged to update them, implying some sort of penalty if you don't, as per the driving licence.0 -
Just because P14s (the P60 is for the employee) are no longer sent to HMRC doesn't mean the employer cannot notify a change of address. It can be done via rti.0
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Well actually that's what I thought. But someone came along to say you were obliged to update them, implying some sort of penalty if you don't, as per the driving licence.
Perhaps you should read the full sentence and understand the context rather than just picking out what suits your agenda.Yes, you are obliged to, for you own protection if nothing else, i.e. to avoid this kind of problem happening.0 -
In the short term, try to talk to HMRC. I'd also write to my MP (who has a hotline into the Complaints section) presuming I was in their voting area throughout, pleading for help. Your MP wants your vote, HMRC wants your money - guess who will be easiest to deal with?0
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