Land issue, urgent help needed

moneyistooshorttomention

Auntie-Dolly wrote: »

Slightly OT, but if the fence adjoins the highway you need planning permission if it is over 1m high.

I believe the height where planning permission might come into it is TWO metres = 6'6". Every fence I've ever seen in place or advertised has not exceeded this height - it's the normal height to have fences.

Davesnave

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

I believe the height where planning permission might come into it is TWO metres = 6'6". Every fence I've ever seen in place or advertised has not exceeded this height - it's the normal height to have fences.

From the Planning Portal:

"Planning Permission

You will need to apply for planning permission if you wish to erect or add to a fence, wall or gate and:

• it would be over 1 metre high and next to a highway used by vehicles (or the footpath of such a highway); or over 2 metres high elsewhere...."

Bermuda34

Thank you so much for the replies.
The tennant alleged the landlord called to see him when we were not home and noticed fencing work had started, wasn't happy and went to get her deeds (she is 80yrs old), upon her return she alledgedly showed the tennant the title plan and, his words "it wasn't clear"
No mention on our deeds re access across the land and the landlord has never mentioned anything in 14 years.
Our title plan shows the boundary stopping at our door, but we have a small garden on the other side of the property that has been fenced for 14 years that is not shown on our title plan either.
Perplexed as to why there is no information available re the landlords property on the online registry.
Do we continue with the fencing work or speak to said landlord first ? and do you need to erect a fence in order to go down the adverse possession route ?

Davesnave

Bermuda34 wrote: »

Do we continue with the fencing work or speak to said landlord first ?
and do you need to erect a fence in order to go down the adverse possession route ?

In the circumstances you now describe, I'd speak to the landlord if she is readily available.

To gain adverse possession you'd have to prove exclusive use of the land, which could be hard in an open plan situation. However, it's long-winded and not a solution you should be considering at this stage.

G_M

Bermuda34 wrote: »

.... went to get her deeds (she is 80yrs old),

......
Our title plan shows the boundary stopping at our door, but we have a small garden on the other side of the property that has been fenced for 14 years that is not shown on our title plan either.
if it is not on your Title Plan, it is not yours.
I'm unclear if this is the bit of land that is in dispute, or another bit of land.

Perplexed as to why there is no information available re the landlords property on the online registry.
She is 80. The property has probobly not changed ownership since the introduction of compulsore registration, so is still unregistered. Not unusual.

Do we continue with the fencing work or speak to said landlord first ? and do you need to erect a fence in order to go down the adverse possession route ?

No you don't need a fence - you need to have made use of the land as if it was your own.

I would finish the fencing and see if the LL speaks to you or takes action. But be prepared to remove the fencing/compromise.

It is the owner you need to deal with, not the tenant, so until theowner contacts you, carry on and ignore the tenant.

Read:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/adverse-possession-of-registered-land

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/adverse-possession-of-1-unregistered-land-and-2-registered-land

Land_Registry

Re the land to the front and at issue it would be worth, as posted, investigating it further re a claim. Our PG5 explains the essentials and whilst 'fenced off' can be pertinent to any claim it may not always be essential.
The law is very complex re such matters so always best to get legal advice.
As also posted if the neighbour has owned the property for many years (25+) and only let it on short term lets then it may well be unregistered. To prove her ownership she would need to produce the deeds to demonstrate it and in some ways the posts re next steps are pointing you down that route i.e. stake your claim in situ and then see what evidence she produces/action she takes to remove you from 'her' land. That is in essence how adverse possession works.

Re your other parcel of land - have you checked to see if that is registered? It may be that it is and under a separate title which you also purchased. However I suspect you would have known this when you bought but worth checking. If not registered to you then same guidance applies

Bermuda34

Many thanks to everyone for all the advice, although we have never fenced off the land, we have enjoyed exclusive access for 14 years, rather than risk the expense of a fence which we may be forced to remove, we will cordon off the area with a living screen type hedge which we could easily move and use elsewhere.
If the neighbour doesn't prove ownership we will fully fence off at a later date. We are a bit gutted but are on a very tight budget and can't afford to pay for a fence only to have it pulled down, having said all that, we are determined to keep what we see as our land so an adverse possession claim will be made if required. By early next week the ball will be in the landlords court and we'll post an update.