Parking fine from UKPC (private company - not local authority!)

Jez_Wolf

mpython wrote: »

Jez,

Anti-social behaviour orders canbe sought for all manner of ant-social behaviour, including parking in disabled bays.

Commerical law, see posts passum, there are plenty of examples people being taken to court by these companies. There are, of course ways to defend yourself - again see posts passum.

I'm not sure why you're questioning the law of common curtesy, what type of society do you want to live in? May I ask whether you think its acceptable for able bodied drivers to park in marked disabled driver bays - whether they've been provided by Tesco or the Council?

Is parking "in the wrong place" in a private car park tantamount to Anti Social behaviour? I don't think so - please explain how this is Anti Social Behaviour

Commercial law? - the PPC's always lose against a properly presented defence. Please show the cases they have won.

This "Law of Common Curtesy" [sic] - when was this law passed by Parliament?

If a "disabled bay" is provided by Tesco, it has no legal standing. PPC's cannot penalise anybody for parking in them. Only the Police and Councils can raise penalty charges, not money grabbing cowboys.

mpython

Jez

If pigs, chickens, senior citizens and feral youth can all be made subject to ASBOs why can't able bodied people who deliberately deprive disabled badge holders of their entitlements?

You are wrong in your assumptions and assertions. PPCs can and do levy penalty charges but they cannot impose fines. If PPCs cannot levy penalties, why do the courts uphold any of their cases (as previously advised see posts passum for cases PPCs have won). If PPCs cannot levy penalties and commercial contract law does not provide grounds for such charges, then why do people not use this line of arguement when a wheel clamp has been applied to their vehicle?

I think you'll find that curtesy underlies an enormous amount of UK law - you might like to start with the magna carta.

Now I've answered the questions to your posts would you please answer the question I've asked you:-

Do you think it is socially acceptable for able bodied people to park in bays marked for the use of disabled badge holders?

dangeroussports

People who park in disabled bays without the relevant badge deserve to be knee capped so they can then have a real use for the bays.

granted there are nubile able people out there abusing the disable badge scheme by pretending to be disabled (the work dodging lying scum sucking bug eyed yellow toothed lazy useless air thieves that they are).

Tozer

mpython wrote: »

Jez

If pigs, chickens, senior citizens and feral youth can all be made subject to ASBOs why can't able bodied people who deliberately deprive disabled badge holders of their entitlements?

You are wrong in your assumptions and assertions. PPCs can and do levy penalty charges but they cannot impose fines. If PPCs cannot levy penalties, why do the courts uphold any of their cases (as previously advised see posts passum for cases PPCs have won). If PPCs cannot levy penalties and commercial contract law does not provide grounds for such charges, then why do people not use this line of arguement when a wheel clamp has been applied to their vehicle?

I think you'll find that curtesy underlies an enormous amount of UK law - you might like to start with the magna carta.

Now I've answered the questions to your posts would you please answer the question I've asked you:-

Do you think it is socially acceptable for able bodied people to park in bays marked for the use of disabled badge holders?

You have highlighted the difference between morals and law. People shouldn't park in disabled bays (although has anyone noticed how many there seem to be these days?????) but your legal arguments are pathetic.

As has been said before, the liquidated damage charge imposed by PPC is entirely challengable under English law (there isn't actually a body of law called "UK law") as not being a genuine pre-estimate of the loss likely to be suffered in the event of a breach of contract.

peter_the_piper

I really cannot see what the arguement is about. All of the posters to this thread have agreed that it is NOT acceptable to park in a disabled space, however that does not give a ppc the right to levy illegal penalties for doing so. All the cases the ppc's have won have hinged around the driver a) admitting they are in fact the driver and b) relying on "I didn't see the sign judge". PPC's do not have the ability to prove who the driver was and can only attempt to give their invoice to the driver, the RK is not necessarily the driver so therefore cannot have made any contract with anyone. Eg: our car is owned by my MIL but any of 4 drivers could have driven it any particular day, there is no compulsion on the MIL to say who was driving, (if she even knew)

mpython

Hi Peter,

Thanks for your post.

I've advised people to use some of those defences myself (e.g. tell PPCs to write to the driver not the owner) but by the nature of their defence it accepts there is a commercial contract entered into.

Sorry if it seems like an arguement to you, it feels like a discussion to me. Jez hasn't been rude to me or made uncalled for comments & (I hope) I haven't to him either.

Jez asked an open question which I responded to and followed up with explanations and examples, I'm just trying to clarify whether we just disagree about the applications of ASBOs (post#22) or whether he thinks its OK to park in disabled bays per se.

peter_the_piper

I'm sorry if I thought it was deteriorating but I remember a thread which included posts from Blue Lagoon etc which ended acrimoniously and I hoped to avoid this. Useful information can easily be lost when there are disagreements.

hollydays

Giving an asbo for parking in a disabled space seems highly unlikely.

Jez_Wolf

mpython wrote: »

I'm just trying to clarify whether we just disagree about the applications of ASBOs (post#22) or whether he thinks its OK to park in disabled bays per se.

Mpython, I do agree that it is wrong for able bodied people to park in disabled bays.

I cannot agree with the ASBO suggestion, given what the Home Office have to say:

What is ASB?

"Anti-social behaviour (ASB) includes a variety of behaviour covering a whole complex of selfish and unacceptable activity that can blight the quality of community life.
Examples include:

• nuisance neighbours
• noisy & nuisance behaviour
• yobbish behaviour and intimidating groups taking over public spaces
• vandalism, graffiti and fly-posting
• people dealing and buying drugs on the street
• people dumping rubbish and abandoning cars
• begging and anti-social drinking
• the misuse of fireworks

Anti-social behaviour doesn't just make life unpleasant. It holds back the regeneration of disadvantaged areas and creates an environment where more serious crime can take hold"

dangeroussports

In english please matey.....

asbos r for everyone innit blud