House with worthless 10 year warranty-possible fraud?!

hollydays

casparg44 wrote: »

and if he doesn't threaten him with what? He has committed fraud has he not? Creating and supplying false documents to obtain insurance? how do you report such a fraud?

Why wouldn't he?
I can't see this conversation
" there's quite a bit of money needs spending to put the problems right.you forged a document. I need you to pay for the work"
Him" nah, report me to the police
instead"


Get him to pay first, then discuss it with the local planning department, they will point you in the right direction.

Alice_Walker

hollydays wrote: »

Why wouldn't he?
I can't see this conversation
" there's quite a bit of money needs spending to put the problems right.you forged a document. I need you to pay for the work"
Him" nah, report me to the police
instead"


Get him to pay first, then discuss it with the local planning department, they will point you in the right direction.

The OP has no contract with the builder. The OP does have a contract with the previous occupier, but we're still in the dark as to what information they gave about the boiler.

The only body I can see being interested in this is Gas Safe, and in turn they may contact the HSE. HSE can prosecute the builder but that would still bring no redress for the OP.

naedanger

casparg44 wrote: »

There are two issues that I need advice with:

1. The builder next door has committed fraud and is probably doing so on a regular basis as he builds homes all over the place- how do we report this and who to?

I believe fraud can be reported to the following:
http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/

2. ... Can we sue them?

Yes you can sue them, but I would have thought to have a realistic chance of winning you should employ your own solicitor - partly because the matter is complicated and partly because the party you propose suing are, or employ, solicitors.

Zandoni

I'd be inclined to get another heating engineer out, it could well be a very simple pipe swap.

thearchitect

Firstly, as others have pointed out, there is no legal requirement for new houses to come with any sort of warranty over and above common law rights.


Most lenders require a new house to come with an insurance-backed warranty and hence housebuilders will usually offer NHBC or one of the similar schemes. These are not, contrary to marketing suggestions, entirely comprehensive but will typically cover main structural and envelope issues for a period of up to 10 years.


Some smaller builders, or those undertaking self-build, will have an architect (or occasionally surveyor) inspect the property at key stages of the work and certify those elements using a form based on the CML, RIBA, or RIAS templates. These are less comprehensive in their coverage than a warranty inasmuch as the architect would have to act negligently and will not have had a supervisory role. There is an important legal distinction there which I will not bore people with here saving for noting that in my experience it is not always well understood by small-town conveyancing solicitors.

In this particular case the builder appears to have acted dishonestly or perhaps even fraudulently issued a fake architect’s certificate to the original purchaser. Inasmuch as there is presumably no direct contractual relationship between OP and the builder, however, this complicates the legal position and any action against the builder would have to be based on tort (or delict, if Scots Law applies). That is a difficult and costly process best undertaken if someone such as householder insurer is covering legal costs.

Like others, however, I am unconvinced as the sudden discovery of incorrect plumbed hot water supply pipes. I do not consider it reasonable or plausible for such a defect to have gone unnoticed for an extended period of time (by two separate owners) and a court may well take a similar view.

This takes us to the question of how best to remedy the situation. It sounds to me as if a second opinion is required to determine whether the extent of rerouting of pipework currently anticipated is required.

lincroft1710

thearchitect wrote: »

Like others, however, I am unconvinced as the sudden discovery of incorrect plumbed hot water supply pipes. I do not consider it reasonable or plausible for such a defect to have gone unnoticed for an extended period of time (by two separate owners) and a court may well take a similar view.

This takes us to the question of how best to remedy the situation. It sounds to me as if a second opinion is required to determine whether the extent of rerouting of pipework currently anticipated is required.

I also think it most unusual that in 6 years, neither of the 2 owners ever used one of the toilets. Why would anyone run a pipe from a boiler to a toilet? Why did they connect hw pipes from sink, bath, basin to cold water supply? Incompetent isn't the word boilers come with very detailed installation instructions!

societys_child

Zandoni wrote: »

I'd be inclined to get another heating engineer out, it could well be a very simple pipe swap.

Sounds like that could be the answer.;)

thearchitect

The issue we have is that we have discovered (well a qualified gas engineer has) that the boiler in the house has been plumbed in backwards, causing the house to have no hot water from the boiler and the hot water to feed to the toilet instead. All the pipes under the utility room have been fitted wrongly so the whole utility room needs ripping up and the boiler taken out and refitted correctly. This is not a normal wear and tear issue, this is an issue that has been there since the boiler was incorrectly fitted.

The subsequent reference to an immerser suggest to me that OP has a traditional boiler with seperate hot water cylinder, rather than the arguably more common combi boiler installation.

A traditional boiler heats the water in the radiators in a direct circuit, with a secondary or indirect system (think a coil) in the HWC. Water is then drawn directly from the HWC to feed taps or applicances.

It is possible, I suppose, for the original plumbing and heating contracto to have somehow omitted the connection to the HWC but it would be pretty ulikely. Arguably it is possible for the hot water heating circuit to feed a WC and for the system to be topped up by the header tank without homeowner intervention but given that a heating circuit will typically have inhibitors and the like I find it difficult to see how it might be go un-noticed.

All this says to me that it might be time to get a second opinion from a seperate heating contactor.

SuperHan

As others have said, your point about the warranty is likely moot. We have a 10 year warranty on ours, but there is only 2 years of cover for fixtures. As above, the remaining 8 years of cover is just for the actual structure, so you'd probably find yourself out of cover anyway, even if you had a legitimate 10 year warranty in place.

thearchitect

OP seems to have vanished!