UKPC Parking in a disabled bay with hospital permit!

kodiplod

Hi,

I'm hoping someone can help!

Last Thursday my nan and I went to our local hospital. She regularly volunteers for hospital visiting as do I with hospital radio, for which I am given a permit to park on site. I assumed this was for disabled spaces as well, as the car park opposite the hospital radio is only for disabled spaces, I have parked there before for 5 years and had no problem.

There are no signs above the spaces or at all in the car park apart from when entering the car park. There are only painted disabled signs on the floor.

I received the 'fine' on my window of £100 or £60 if paid within 14 days. I did a few searches and took advice from this website to appeal and sent the following letter (I didn't use any of my details):

'You issued me with a parking ticket on 1st September 2016 but I believe it was issued unfairly. I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following reasons:

The alleged contravention did not occur
Quite simply, the parking attendant got it wrong and the vehicle was not parked inappropriately at the time the ticket was issued. This is due to the fact I was hospital visiting at the time (which I do voluntarily) and my grandson was gathering requests for hospital radio. My grandson has been doing hospital radio for over 5 years and has never had a problem with parking anywhere on site, even in a disabled space if there were no other spaces available which happens regularly as the car park is so small. Please see attached evidence, my parking permit, which was displayed clearly at all times as proof of my claim.
There was insufficient signage
The car park in question has no clear signage to explain what the relevant parking restrictions are. This means no contract can be formed with the landowner and all tickets are issued illegally. Please see attached evidence, which are some photos I have taken of the parking spaces and the lack of signage I have gathered as proof.

If you choose to pursue me please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only letter you will receive from me until you answer the specific points raised in my letter."

I got a response today via email basically saying they have signs stating they were for blue badge holders only etc and that the signs are all regulated with the BPA. I can now either Pay, go to POLAR or do nothing which apparently can lead to court.

I don't really know what to do, any advice would be greatly appreciated!

I have attached some images also.
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upload a gif

Coupon-mad

This is due to the fact I was hospital visiting at the time (which I do voluntarily) and my grandson was gathering requests for hospital radio.

With that pretty dodgy appeal (not based on the advice in this forum's sticky threads, looks like the terrible one in the old MSE article!) you've possibly given away who the driver was...except...was the driver actually your grandson?

Are you the keeper of the car but you were NOT driving?

Please read the NEWBIES thread first, near the top of the forum.

kodiplod

Coupon-mad wrote: »

With that pretty dodgy appeal (not based on the advice in this forum's sticky threads, looks like the terrible one in the old MSE article!) you've possibly given away who the driver was...except...was the driver actually your grandson?

Are you the keeper of the car but you were NOT driving?

Please read the NEWBIES thread first, near the top of the forum.

I was the driver and it is my car. I have not given any additional details about myself

Coupon-mad

OK, in your first post you said 'my nan and I went to a Hospital' so I assume your Grandson started the thread.

But YOU sent the appeal in your name to UKPC (not in your Grandson's name) and you (the nan!) got the reply and POPLA code?

Is that right?

Your photos are useful evidence of the lack of signs. Please go to 'UKPC photos' (Google it) and put in your VRN and show us their evidence photos. UKPC are usually quite awful at photo evidence with unreadable pale signs - very relevant for POPLA.

kodiplod

Coupon-mad wrote: »

OK, in your first post you said 'my nan and I went to a Hospital' so I assume your Grandson started the thread.

But YOU sent the appeal in your name to UKPC (not in your Grandson's name) and you (the nan!) got the reply and POPLA code?

Is that right?

Your photos are useful evidence of the lack of signs. Please go to 'UKPC photos' (Google it) and put in your VRN and show us their evidence photos. UKPC are usually quite awful at photo evidence with unreadable pale signs - very relevant for POPLA.

Sorry its so confusing as my nan cant use a computer so I am doing it for her. This is her grandson typing but yes she was driving and yes she got the reply.

Coupon-mad

Does nan have a Blue Badge?

If not, does she have any long-term medical condition affecting her daily life?

Trying to understand why the car was in a disabled bay. This is not a reason to park there:

''there were no other spaces available which happens regularly as the car park is so small.''

The only real chance at POPLA are two things IMHO:

- the first appeal does leave it ambiguous as to who might have been the driver (nan or grandson) and of course UKPC do not know if you drive or not (please remove your age from the above post!!). So you can use 'no keeper liability' and insist that there is no evidence which of the occupants of the car was the driver that day, not even in the appeal. UKPC might read this thread, so it's best to also remove the pic that shows the VRN of the car.

- the signage is bad. Have a look at the BPA Code of Practice (Google it, then search it for 'disabled bay signs'). There must be clear signs of terms near a disabled bay. Even UKPC could not show a sign behind the car, only the lines which do not preclude Hospital radio volunteers who might also have a disabling or chronic condition affecting mobility...(if neither of you does, never park there).

Finally, once you have got your head around those two appeal points, search this forum for 'Hospital POPLA' to find threads showing other people's winning Hospital POPLA appeals. We had a good Gemini one recently - earlier this Summer - that could be changed to 'UKPC' and adapted to suit your nan's case. A search will find it.

Show us first how you've adapted a recent POPLA appeal (2016 only) to suit. Your nan has 28 days from the rejection letter. This might be a difficult one to win if there was no reason to park there in a disabled bay, but we will assist to give her a fighting chance.

Redx

do either of you qualify under the Equality Act 2010 ?

if not , then neither of you should be using those disabled spaces

if yes, we could do with knowing what sort of condition the protected person has that qualifies for them to park in those bays ?

do either of you have a BB ? yes/no ?

Coupon-mad

BTW we are not saying to pay this...but never use a disabled bay if not deserving of it, even on private land, even if there are no other spaces. You cannot use that bay unless either of you has a medical long-term reason to do so.

Moving on - we want to help you win at POPLA, so don't go anywhere!

kodiplod

Coupon-mad wrote: »

BTW we are not saying to pay this...but never use a disabled bay if not deserving of it, even on private land, even if there are no other spaces. You cannot use that bay unless either of you has a medical long-term reason to do so.

Moving on - we want to help you win at POPLA, so don't go anywhere!

Thank you for your help.

No neither of us have a bb and are registered as disabled. My nan does suffer from anxiety which is why she wanted to get in the space quickly I think. I suffer from Crohn's disease also. I'm not sure whether I am in the wrong or not and whether or not to just pay the £60 while its cheaper.

Coupon-mad

Crohn's disease IS a long-term medical condition affecting your daily life, so you do have 'protected characteristics' that meet the definition of disability in the Equality Act 2010. You *can* (technically) park in Hospital disabled bays* but only if you have that need/are having a flare up that day, really - and I would ask the NHS Trust to make a 'reasonable adjustment' for you in future if you think you need it.

None of us would tell you to pay this lot 60p, let alone £60 because if you pay them you are joining in and supporting their scam. IMHO, not a good lesson in life for a teenager and his nan to agree is a good idea, even for an easy life:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11858473/Parking-firm-UKPC-admits-faking-tickets-to-fine-drivers.html

People here do POPLA appeals and many win. Search 'Hospital POPLA' and copy and adapt one and show us. We will help to make it stronger.




*you will still get a PCN because parking firms do not understand the EA and are after the money alone

kodiplod

Coupon-mad wrote: »

BTW we are not saying to pay this...but never use a disabled bay if not deserving of it, even on private land, even if there are no other spaces. You cannot use that bay unless either of you has a medical long-term reason to do so.

Moving on - we want to help you win at POPLA, so don't go anywhere!

Thank you for all your help, I really appreciate it. I tried to do a search but couldn't find anything?