Letter before claim

Kind_Of_Irritated

Yes, quite, LoadsofChildren - just what I think too. Jopson trumps.

Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »

Well Jopson trumps what he says about the tenancy points. Have you produced evidence of what the tenancy says?

I have the tenancy agreement in my possession and have made a scanned copy of it. Nothing at all about parking. I told them I would be bringing it to the court on the day. Perhaps I should upload it here for your thoughts. Not sure that they need it before the day. But would the court need it in my WS on Monday?

Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »

I think that sign is forbidding - there's an almost identical sign in a case that as on Prankster's blog, I can't remember the case though and it was only district judge level (which means it is "persuasive" rather than binding - ie another judge can disregard it, but is unlikely to). The contractual terms are extremely small.

From my limited understanding most of the cases either side can quote are only "persuasive". Something to do with county courts not setting legal precedents as such. Is that correct? The money part on the contract is certainly not written in large font. Written in the smallest font the sign uses.

Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »

Have you gone through IPC's code of practice and listed all the breaches?

No, I haven't. I wouldn't know what are breaches or what aren't.

Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »

VCS case:
I contract to sell you Buck Pal. But I don't own Buck Pal so can't actually sell it to you.
The contract is binding, in that you can sue me for damages - but you can't sue me for specific performance, ie to actually sell Buck Pal to you.
So if they are offering parking that they actually have no right to offer you, how can they sue you? That's like saying that the person who contracted to sell Buck Pal can force the other party to actually buy it (when that would be an utter nonsense). A service contract is a little different than a contract for sale of goods/property and the principle therefore doesn't quite apply IMO.

The whole of that circular argument on Buckingham Palace is presented in order to confuse, imo.

Kind_Of_Irritated

Yes, Loadsofchildren, which is why it's interesting that MG is putting his legal arguments into his WS.

Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »

The witness statements aren't really the place for legal argument, they are meant to be factual.

Parking Prankster has kindly offered to help me with the skeleton argument. Today I rang the court about the timetable for getting that in and the woman seemed not to know what I was on about. She said the court doesn't need anything else if they have the Defence (which I sent in months ago) and the WS.

Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »

A Skeleton Argument would contain these - there is no provision in small claims timetables for these but they are usual in other types of cases so the court is used to them. I'd file one of these at least 3 days prior to the final hearing and serve it too.
The Skeleton will summarise your case in response to the claim, will cross refer to the page numbers in the court bundle (which you will have by then) and will cross refer each point to a particular case.

Right. So I don't need an awful lot of stuff in my WS and that of my son (to be with the court by 2pm this Monday, 27th Feb).

And this is very helpful, thanks - differentiating my case as regards others he is quoting in his WS.

Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »

You will need in your Skeleton to distinguish Beavis from your own case (retail park not residential, commercial interest in ensuring no overstays etc). You don't need to worry about the Skeleton yet - when's your hearing? The point is that you don't need to panic that this is your last chance to get in any legal points.

Your witness statements should really just deal with the facts.

My case is in the last few days of March. Some say we shouldn't put exact dates in forums as they will be easily identifiable. Having said that I have uploaded docs anyway which are also identifiable! It's a little over 4 weeks from now.

Britton

Just be warned that there is a possibility that some of your points will just basically just get ignored, i lost yesterday and points like clarity of sign and amount on it were just ignored, the judge in my case said their sign was bright yellow and he reads signs when he parks in a car park therefore i should have too ��

Loadsofchildren123

What Britton said - serves to emphasise even more that if you have a winning point don't detract from it by running other points that could go either way.

Loadsofchildren123

Kindof:
1. The tenancy: does it pre- or post-date the landowner/parking contract?
2. It is silent on parking. What conversation with the landlord took place about parking? Any?
3. If tenancy post-dates the contract, I think there is trouble ahead. Although, again, what was the tenant told by the landlord and what did he then do re. parking?
4. If tenancy pre-dates the parking contract, again what was tenant told by landlord, what parking was there (eg was there marked residents bays and visitor bays)? How did the tenant habitually use it? When the PPC came along what was tenant told then? Did this come from landlord or managing agent?
6. what does tenancy say about rights of managing agent? And right to amend the contract?
5. If this was discussed orally at the time of signing the tenancy, then it's a term of the contract. If not, and there was parking on site and the tenant used the parking without hindrance, for himself and his visitors, then it's an implied term.

This is all stuff to think about for your witness statement. Your son will need to attend court with you - you need to produce your witnesses for cross-examination.

Glad to hear Prankster's helping you, that's great.

Loadsofchildren123

When you phone the court you speak to someone with no qualifications, who won't understand the CPR or anything. Courts used to employ only trained people, but not any more.

There is no provision in your order for a Skeleton but you are not prevented from filing. It is supposed to be a helpful summary of your defence, the facts and your legal argument, designed to save court time on making oral submissions. Don't ask the court, just file/serve it, but do so 2-3 days in advance, and turn up with extra copies.

My friend's case is at end of March too, We're writing the Skeleton now because we want to take our time to add/delete things as they occur to us. We will simply add in the page references when the court bundle arrives and then send it off.

Loadsofchildren123

IPC breaches : important because of paras 96 and 111 in Beavis judgment. You need to read through the code of practice and identify each and every breach. No shortcuts here I'm afraid.

The_Deep

Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »

IPC breaches : important because of paras 96 and 111 in Beavis judgment. You need to read through the code of practice and identify each and every breach. No shortcuts here I'm afraid.

This is intolerable. The Small Claims Court is meant to be a place where TMOTCO can obtain justice, the plumber who is ripped off by a householder, a householder who is ripped of by a roofer.

Solicitors' cost are nor allowed, how on earth is someone expected to read and understand the SC judgement, faff around with witness statements, statements of truth, rights of audience, CPRs etc., etc., etc.

Clearly the Law is a sub genus of equus. I am glad I chose the Foreign Office rather than the Law.

Kind_Of_Irritated

Yes, loadsofchildren and britton ... I am torn between putting in loads of points or relying on one or two, mainly the contract issues. Anyway I can now show you the tenancy agreement. This is the link to Photobucket for Page 1. I have 7 seven redacted pages.

http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/Zinqua1/Tenancy%20Page%201%20Redacted_zpsn6m8k84u.jpg

Kind_Of_Irritated

I have emailed my son to check on those points, but I know the answer to many of them. For instance, the parking arrangements came in 3 years after his tenancy started.