Roof tiles

shdmummy

Dear MSF Forum Friends,
I need some advice. My builder has put concrete tiles instead of matching clay tiles. Please advice if it will be a problem in future? which one is better. It is very confusing for me. He obviously breached contract. Now saying he will walk off if asked to do this again. What can i do?

I have another layer to tile (first floor roof), should I go with matching concrete or clay on this floor? should I keep the natural clay color or match color with roof? Very very confused.

phoenix_w

I don't think anyone can tell you what to do about the builder.

You either insist he puts it right and follow up with appropriate legal action should be refuse (of course, this means you are left to pick up the pieces in the short term) or you let it slide and let your builder finish up the job.

Personally I'd be pretty p'eed off and consider ringing a solicitor or my home insurers legal advice line. Concrete tiles are going to be cheaper than clay ones and will probably stick out like a sore thumb after a few years of being weather worn. I'd be insisting on a refund in the materials price at least - do you have documentary evidence such as a quote/invoice for clay tiles?

shdmummy

Hi phoenix_w,
no quote/invoice for clay tiles but have contract saying he has to replace existing tiles with matching clay tiles. On a serious note, I don't want to take it to any further level. But will ask for cost difference and he can either pay or remove from total payment.

He has offered other freebies as he realizes his mistake. Is concrete really that bad? Is there a website I can compare costs? I have the measurements and number of tiles required.

phoenix_w

Unless you know the styles of tiles you're getting comparing costs is going to be a pain there are many different styles at different price ranges for both materials - you'd probably be best visiting a builders merchant and getting an idea of the cost per square metre for similar designs.

Concrete tiles are absolutely fine so long as the roof has been designed to cope with them - they're heavier than clay or slate, so if you're replacing either of those materials the timbers supporting them probably need upgrading or at least assessing to ensure they can cope with the extra weight.

Furts

phoenix_w wrote: »

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Concrete tiles are absolutely fine so long as the roof has been designed to cope with them - they're heavier than clay or slate, so if you're replacing either of those materials the timbers supporting them probably need upgrading or at least assessing to ensure they can cope with the extra weight.

This is an important consideration not realised by everyone. If OP has, for example, a Victorian roof, there is a real risk of the roof sagging under the new weight. This could be a matter for Building Control - changing like for like is OK when deemed maintenance, but a different matter when additional loading is proposed.

If OP has a modern trussed rafter roof there is not much leeway on their design. Most should not be due for re-roofing yet so I am guessing it is an older roof.

shdmummy

Hi Furts,
He has replaced the whole roof so I am guessing it is OK to handle the weight. But thank you for emphasizing I will double check on this. He is also giving me 10 year guarantee on any problems with roof.

What do you mean by maintenance? Does concrete require more maintenance?
Cheers

Furts

shdmummy wrote: »

Hi Furts,
He has replaced the whole roof so I am guessing it is OK to handle the weight. But thank you for emphasizing I will double check on this. He is also giving me 10 year guarantee on any problems with roof.

What do you mean by maintenance? Does concrete require more maintenance?
Cheers

You have 3 areas to ponder:
1. Do you have Planning Permission for the altered roof tiles?
2. Do you have Buildings regulations approval if the weight of the tiles is greater than that there before.
3. If the builder did an obvious b-lls up like fitting non matching tiles what else may be wrong? Even if you believe everything else is OK if the builder cannot match a roof tile what confidence do you have that the tiles and roof have been done in a good practice, and competent, manner?

warby68

What reason did he give for using what he did?

Obvious is to try and get away with the cheaper option - perhaps he priced wrong for matching tile. Bear in in mind there is a huge range of price in roofing materials and matching an older style (ie now less commonly used) can/will be pretty expensive compared to the bog standard current day tile of choice - purely on volume grounds. An unmatched roof looks hideous and gets worse as time goes on.

I'd want a VERY convincing explanation for accepting this - he is simply bullying you by threatening to walk off which rings major alarm bells for me.

If you're going to accept the new tiles and they are ok for purpose I'd at least make the whole roof match

shdmummy

Thank you so much Furts and Warby68. I have enough to argue with him about the safety of the house. I think building regulations are coming this week to check. I will make sure I am there to hear what they have to say.

His explanation was very patchy - he said my roofer accidentally matched the tiles so that it goes with original. He did not check the material as such. The contract clearly says match new roof with existing using red clay tiles.

Can any one please tell me how to compare the cost? So that I can confront him with the new information.

Furts

shdmummy wrote: »

Thank you so much Furts and Warby68.

Can any one please tell me how to compare the cost? So that I can confront him with the new information.

The simple way for a guide price is to take a concrete tile and an original clay tile to your local builders merchant counter - or you may have a local roofing merchant like a member of SIG group. (There must be some spares left over, or pieces still left around, or in a skip).

Ask what is the cost per tile for 500-1000 to be delivered to your address- no need for a street number, just a guide so they can factor in delivery costs.

If you can identify exactly what you have a web search will give a guide price, but do factor in delivery.

Heedtheadvice

Shdmummy, you have some very good responses to your query and you should be now in no doubt as to the potentially serious consequences. Let me reiterate though to place emphasis.
1 Structural integrity. You write that the whole roof had been replaced. How much do you mean by that? Tiles, battens, felt/waterproof membrane (sarking if in Scotland)....or more such as the roof structural components (trusses or similar) in the attic? You need to be clear on this as the loading (forces the roof structure has to withstand) will be different if non structural components not changed or if it's a complete roof rebuild then there ought to be new structural design done to ensure the forces produced by the roof have been taken into account. For the latter it may have been done by the truss suppliers. For the former design checks by a structural engineer. Maybe neither and your builder has just used his skill and experience - that would be a worry. Get in touch with building control yourself!

Secondly the possibility that planning consent was required. Do you know and if it was what were the conditions? Such conditions may be replacing like with like (especially if you are in a conservation area). If planning has been contravened they will probably expect you as the homeowner (not your builder) to rectify. You do not want to pay twice for the same job!!!

Contract. Your builder is obviously from what you write not following the agreed contract so is in default. If reputable company they should rectify or at least come to an resolution you are acceptable with. Contractually you are in a strong position. In practice if you have an irresponsible builder (not even a cowboy), one who's business is not doing well financially or a small limited company or just a pain in the back side one, then you may not be in a strong position. Indication are one of those where he sees a way to reduced expenditure or no loss for himself. You can always take legal advice as has been mentioned or join Which? Legal for a small fee - well worth it if you can even though you may not wish to take it further just now, find out your options rather than be in a weak position.

Just a thought, if he is threatening to walk off site is his 10 year guarantee worth anything?