Help Greatly Received; Parking Ticket Issued At Milnrow Metrolink Station.

Redx

I think you are completely missing the point here

as its subject to byelaws the TOC (Metrolink) would , could and should issue a byelaws notice and have 6 months to take THE DRIVER (if known) to a magistrates court , effectively as a trespasser (for breaking a byelaw as seen on the pcn)

the fact that CARE (and Indigo and APCOA and others) are trying to issue car parking invoices on railway land to keepers is almost tantamount to fraud and so these facts alone are why the objections are in at popla

the point being they should not be issuing them to keepers and should not be getting keeper details

nobody can tell you what will happen if POPLA rule that they cannot hear byelaws cases

nobody can tell you what will happen if a PPC tries to take somebody to court for a parking invoice on "non-relevant" land because no PPC has got that far yet and few , if any of these charges get before any magistrates either

once these things go to court and a judgment is made (like the Beavis case or that recent lease case for a flat owner) then the law may be clarified one way or another

either way you should still be appealing and using any popla code at the appropriate time because that is the route that CARE have pursued for the last 4 years or more when issuing invoices to keepers like yourself (which is another reason why the drivers details are never admitted)

I have written dozens of posts in metrolink threads on here in the last 3 years

I have never seen one lose where the drivers details have not been disclosed

I have never seen one go to a magistrates court

I have never seen an airport or railway one go to small claims court either

it really isnt that difficult to understand , when you think that there are no regulations about private parking but there are byelaws on railway and airport land

the biggest sc@m is JLA in Liverpool , but there is also RHA in Doncaster, BHX in Birmingham , and other airports too , plus all the train ones in the south

check your paperwork, its a byelaw infringement (a penalty) yet its a parking charge notice , the 2 do not compute and in any case that is a notice to the driver , not the keeper , they have not got keeper details yet as it hasnt hit day 29 from the date of the notice , so you are reacting to a windscreen ticket to driver for a parking charge notice and not a penalty charge notice with the threat of magistrates court

they cannot issue a parking charge notice on a public road either (although some sc@mmers have done so)

the landowner should be issuing a byelaws PENALTY notice and take the driver (if known) to a magistrates court , within 6 months

I have not seen any setup where this takes place from either an airport, nor any train operator , nor any port

popla clearly state on their site

POPLA has decided to adjourn all cases on which the parking operator has asked the motorist to make a payment in respect of alleged breach of Byelaws. This is following complaints to POPLA and ISPA that POPLA has no authority to look at these appeals. We are considering our position and will make a further statement in due course. We do not anticipate the cases to be adjourned for more than two months from 1 September 2016. Parking operators should not pursue payment while the cases are adjourned. During this period, motorists must still submit their appeal within 28 days of the date of the POPLA code if they want POPLA to consider their appeal. If you have already submitted your appeal you do not need to take further action.

1 November 2016 update

It has taken longer than anticipated to reach our decision on whether POPLA has the authority to look at appeals in respect of alleged breach of Byelaws. We expect to communicate our decision within the next four weeks. Thank you for your continued patience while consider our position. In the meantime, our guidance remains unchanged: Parking operators should not pursue payment while the cases are adjourned. During this period, motorists must still submit their appeal within 28 days of the date of the POPLA code if they want POPLA to consider their appeal. If you have already submitted your appeal you do not need to take further action.

djt353t

Thank you for all your help and advice.

As suggested I am principally appealing on the basis that No Notice To Keeper was served. I am using the template which is also excellent.

One additional question; as the vehicle was parked on a metro link carpark should I still use Number 3 on the template "No evidence of landowner authority-the operator is put to strict proof or full compliance with the BPA code of practice."

Umkomaas

One additional question; as the vehicle was parked on a metro link carpark should I still use Number 3 on the template "No evidence of landowner authority-the operator is put to strict proof or full compliance with the BPA code of practice."

Why wouldn't you?

Are you appealing on the basis of no keeper liability based on the byelaws issue? At worst it will put a POPLA appeal into a stayed position, at best it is extremely toxic for the PPC.

djt353t

Wanted to check whether this argument still had relevance in my case as it was taken from the template.

My main appeal focus is on NTK not served but wondered if I should still include it.

From your response my inference is that I would be wise to do so ?

djt353t

Good evening,

I appealed to POPLA using the template suggested above. I have just received a copy of Care Parking's reply which extends to 45 pages. A good deal of it is difficult to understand, very legalistic in tone. To simplify matters;

1 They reject all points in the template used.

2 They repeatedly suggest that the letter is a copy and paste (which it largely is).

3 They said that if my vehicle was broken down (it was). I should have contacted them straight away, which in print doesn't sound unreasonable?

Questions;

Should I now contact POPLA appeals, within the 7 day period, with copies of the recovery documentation from Green Flag ?

If I lose the POPLA appeal what are the options open to me AND worse case scenario if the case does go to court and I lose how much would the court costs be ?

Thank you

Thank you.

Coupon-mad

They repeatedly suggest that the letter is a copy and paste (which it largely is).

So? No problem with that - and their letters are ALL templates, including this 45 page evidence pack.

Should I now contact POPLA appeals, within the 7 day period, with copies of the recovery documentation from Green Flag ?

No, you cannot add new evidence. This had to be in your appeal/with your appeal up front. You can only comment on the evidence pack.

If I lose the POPLA appeal what are the options open to me AND worse case scenario if the case does go to court

Options are to ignore it and come back if you get a court claim. Look how likely that is from Car Parking (Anchor):

http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Anchor_Security_Services.html

Yep - NONE. No court claims.

Worst case scenario if you were the first, and managed to lose (unlikely) is you'd pay about £150 and then it would all be over. No CCJ, nothing, nada.

Northlakes

You can't get better advice than what you have been given but I'm not certain you're not understanding the message from the expert posters.

AS LONG AS THE DRIVER HAS NOT BEEN IDENTIFIED THE KEEPER CANNOT BE LIABLE AS THIS NOT RELEVANT LAND FOR POFA 2012 The CARE PCN isn't claiming POFA compliance either.
Care is hoping that you will unwittingly name the driver.

They are claiming a contractual agreement between the driver and themselves. Then you throw in frustration of contract as the keepers vehicle was broken down, as evidenced by Green Flag but make sure that receipt of repair from Green Flag hasn't got the 'drivers' name on it, just the VRN left on.

You have to rebut the points made by Care. Don't even think that Care will worry about the accuracy of their submission , they only want your money.

This thread also provides some background.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5567541

djt353t

That is a brilliant reply. Thank you as I felt deflated following their response.

Loved your rebuttal to their copy and paste claims AND most importantly that if it even gets to court and if I then lose it will only cost 50 pounds more than if I pay now. A gamble surely worth taking.

Thank you Coupon Mad.

djt353t

And to you South Lakes,

I live in hope.

pappa_golf

why are POPLa adjudicating , all cases regarding bylaws are supposed to be on hold