PCN in parking space I own.

mingebag

Hi, I've searched the forums and not found anyone in a similar position.
I bought a car parking space in the building where i live. After a year the management company introduced a permit scheme for parking - something I was not consulted on nor agreed too.
However, the permit went down the dashboard and was not on display.
During this time the car received 2 tickets. I have appealed as per the guide on this forum using the template for BCA.
Today I had this claim refused and provided with POPLA code - they also suggested that using templates found on this site are never a good idea.
As the legal lease holder and as far as I can see there is no clause in my lease stating they can issue charges or introduce schemes, I should not be liable for this charge.
The divil in me would like to take this further and suggest they were actually trespassing on my property but a prompt solution would be better.
Any suggestions how to appeal?
TIA

Redx

I can assure you this type of issue comes up on here daily and has been covered numerous times already , especially if you own the space or are the actual landowner , or own the leasehold , as your rights exceed the PPC rights or the MA rights

you only have to look at the numerous posts made by member THE DEEP to see his replies to these issues and the link to the DAVEY case which cost the PPC dear due to trespass issues

like this debate http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5430107

just put the word DAVEY into the forum search box to find plenty more

POPLA may or may not agree, but a court should find in your favour , but by all means use the POPLA code to try to win at popla, also warning the PPC about a counter claim and injunction , because you do not have to agree to this PPC or MA condition at all (which you say you havent)

if the land is in your name , you dont have a contract with the PPC

Coupon-mad

Search the forum (this parking board only) for 'own space permit'. Zillions of threads, half a dozen every week.

As for POPLA, the NEWBIES thread tells you how to find POPLA examples - search this forum board for the acronym or name of the parking firm (first word only, not the word 'parking' if it appears in their name!) plus the word 'POPLA'. So: 'PCM POPLA' or 'UKPC POPLA' or VCS POPLA' would be examples of what to search - replace the first word with the name of your parking firm, or short version/acronym.

If no joy, try 'Permit POPLA' then 'go advanced' and (bottom left of the advanced board search) choose 'show posts'. I am talking about the search facility box immediately above the threads on page one of this parking sub-forum, level with 'NEW THREAD'. Not the general entire MSE website search box at the very top of the entire page.

The_Deep

The Davey case is here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKPC-liable-for-trespass-**SUCCESS**

but Mr Davey is a barrister so did not have to hire a lawyer.

Here is another case where the PPC picked the wrong marine.

http://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/milton-keynes-woman-secures-landmark-victory-for-flat-tenants-in-parking-dispute-1-7459066

You will note that this is an appeal, so the first judge got it wrong and found for the PPC. However this decision can be used to your advantage.

Generally, PPCs do not take these to court as "own space" cases are usually well defended, and leaseholders' rights trump those of managing agents and their PPC poodles, but, as you can see, some do.

If you want to get rid of it use PoPLA, if you want to give the MA/PPC a bloody nose. let them take you to court where, if you win, you can make them pay dearly for their hubris.

You can also raise it at the AGM. I did and the MA chickened.

Ralph-y

"they also suggested that using templates found on this site are never a good idea."

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

but they failed to say for who ...........

you

or them ?????/

:T:T

keep up with all the good advice that you have been given and you will win

good luck

Ralph:cool:

Half_way

Dear management company, re Parking permit scheme, to avoid any uncertainty on your part, I was never consulted, and i never agreed to you taking the unreasonable actions of appointing a predatory parking company to operate a commercial, and profitable business on the space which i own/rent/lease.
For the avoidance of any doubt up until now i have only been displaying a permit as a courtesy to whoever/whatever patrols the parking spaces, as i have never agreed to the imposition of such a predatory parking company, and as such i may no longer display a permit, or any other token to park vehicle upon the land/in the space.
If you wish to have this permit returned please supply a stamped addressed envelope with sufficient postage to cover its return.
I am also informing you that I am withdrawing all/any perceived rights of access to the space in respect to so called car park management, for either yourselves or your agents.
As principal, I am sure that you are aware that you are jointly and severally liable for the actions of your agents, and as a result i would suggest that you look at the court case Davey vs UKPC.

As a result of the above you now also need to take the following action: immediately cancel the parking charge notice issued to me as registered keeper of vehicle xxxx issued by your agents PPC.
As i do not appreciate having my time wasted I may charge you as principal upto £19 per hour pr part thereof should you allow your agents to progress with this to POPLA and or beyond.
I trust that i have made myself clear on this issue, and i look forward to hearing from your together with a full apology.
As a gesture of goodwill i am willing to forgo my expenses /costs upto now (at upto £19 per hour) should you do the right thing and instruct your agents to cancel.
I shall also be informing other residents over this issue, so that they do not fall victim to this predatory company that belongs to an un regulated industry that is out of control .
for your information, the BPA ltd and the IPC are no more than private trade associations and not regulatory bodys.

The_Deep

Sorry, but you cannot withdraw the MA's implied right of access to your space, it belongs to the head lease holder or landowner for whom the MA acts.

You might like to mention somewhere that car park mamagement does not include the harassment of occupants and may be illegal ubder the Landlord and Tenants Acts if it breaches the leaseholders'/tenants' rights to the "quiet enjoyment" of their properties.

Personally, I am surprised that the MA did not consult leaseholders before bringing in a PPC. This should have been discussed at the AGM.

The_Slithy_Tove

The_Deep wrote: »

Sorry, but you cannot withdraw the MA's implied right of access to your space, it belongs to the head lease holder or landowner fgor whom the MA acts. .

Depends on the exact wording of the lease. Neither the landlord/freeholder, nor their managing agent is allowed to march into the properties in a development without due cause and sufficient notice. The same surely applies to other parts of the demised property, e.g. the parking space.

Half_way

That's where the withdrawal of access is only for the purposes of issuing parking charge notices/tickets.