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Late deposit protection of my deposit by my landlady... Small Claims Court?
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I do not say going to court is "simple". That is exactly why I couldn't bring myself to do it. That said, this type of dispute is very straight forward. Either they followed the rules or they didn't. In this type of dispute, I think it is straight forward. You can find many examples of cases online, even one person in this thread said they got 2x the deposit when their LL was 8 days late in protecting it (which I even found to be harsh).Although it appears you don't stand to lose anything personally, other people reading this may take this as good advice and put themselves at risk. Therefore it is important to fully understand legal processes before embarking on action.
You imply it will be a slam-dunk case. Maybe it will be, but there is nothing certain when you go to court. As you say, the judge gets to decide the level of 'penalty' appropriate for the circumstances. The judge has discretion to set the level at £1. Which would mean you walk out of court with 80p, after the claims company have taken their cut. Hopefully that will be sufficient to pay your car parking costs if you decide to attend court in person.
Please don't mislead people by making them think going to court is ever 'simple'.
Agree with this, however, I believe that the judge still can decide not to award this in some rare cases.The judge does not have the discretion to set the penalty at £1. The law clearly states that the penalty must be 1-3 times the value of the deposit.
Specifically when awarding a penalty for breach of the Section 213 Housing Act 2004....0 -
What losses?
If they stick to the simple rules to manage the tenant's money this can't happen.
Or do you mean they see the deposit and spurious claims on it as their profit and the inability to do this as a loss. The sheer volume of LLs doing this is the reason the law was made. Looks like its come full circle.
What I mean is the claims companies will be extracting money for their benefit and incentivised to encourage tenants to pursue claims where the basis of claim is at best marginal. Someone will end up paying for this and it would be naive to think (as a whole) that will be the landlords.
Even when people try to follow the rules, the occasional mistake is going to happen. With claims company involvement potentially meaning you could be sued six years later for the delay of a single day, or no longer having proof you supplied the correct information, there will ultimately be a negative impact on the rental market.
It is easy to say landlords just need to stick to the rules. In exactly the same way people glibly say it is easy for drivers to simpy stick to the speed limit. Is anyone involved in this discussion going to claim they have never driven at 32 in a 30mph limit? Would you be supportive of zero-tolerance speed limit enforcement with prosecution underwritten by private-sector companies working on a for-profit basis?"In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"0 -
Jerome_TFB wrote: »
Agree with this, however, I believe that the judge still can decide not to award this in some rare cases.
:wall: :wall: :wall:0 -
The law has been around for a long time now, yet it is not widely known by tenants.What I mean is the claims companies will be extracting money for their benefit and incentivised to encourage tenants to pursue claims where the basis of claim is at best marginal. Someone will end up paying for this and it would be naive to think (as a whole) that will be the landlords.
I myself stumbled upon it when I was looking into harassment (as my LL was pestering us with threatening emails towards the end of the tenancy).
Of course mistakes happen. But good landlords would be forgiven. I am pursuing it because that woman is an evil [insert whatever you feel like], never fixed anything and made our life hell for a solid 3 months. When we did nothing wrong, just gave our notice.Even when people try to follow the rules, the occasional mistake is going to happen.
Again, in my case I would never drag a good landlord in the court for this if they were good to me.
You can be sued 6 years later without the involvement of such companies. That is what the law states. And like any business, you should retain paperwork for the appropriate amount of time. I do not believe this would have any impact on the rental market, as such cases remain marginal, and most landlords follow the rules.With claims company involvement potentially meaning you could be sued six years later for the delay of a single day, or no longer having proof you supplied the correct information, there will ultimately be a negative impact on the rental market.
Well, I am sorry but if you get caught at 32 instead of 30, you can't complain when the fine reaches you. By this I am not saying that I have not gone over the speed limit.It is easy to say landlords just need to stick to the rules. In exactly the same way people glibly say it is easy for drivers to simpy stick to the speed limit. Is anyone involved in this discussion going to claim they have never driven at 32 in a 30mph limit? Would you be supportive of zero-tolerance speed limit enforcement with prosecution underwritten by private-sector companies working on a for-profit basis?
As a matter of fact, I was once flashed at about 40 towards the end of a 30 zone by a camera. I overtook a truck, and believed that the 40 zone started when the road became a dual carriage way.
I was wrong. I saw a flash, and even if I was not driving dangerously or recklessly, I was wrong. I wouldn't have contested anything (Thankfully the fine never came :beer:).
Laws are here for a reason. Mistakes happen, but at the end of the day rules are rules, and anyone should know better. In a car it is easy to go over.
As a landlord, you start new tenancy less often, and you should know better. You receive a deposit: you know that you have to protect it. It takes less than 15 mins to do, and is simple and easy. In my eyes, there is no excuse. If you get caught, tough bananas.
but again, we see things in a different light, and this can be discussed for hours. Maybe you are a LL, I do not know. I am a tenant, and I think that the law can be tough on LL, especially if they are trying to evict a blatant offending tenant.
But I have zero pity for horrible people who do not follow the rules.0 -
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That's the issue though. You would forgive a good landlord, but for every one of you there are a hundred people who would do anything they can to scrape back a few pounds of rent. In just the same way there was a time people wouldn't sue another car driver if they'd made a genuine mistake, but now the greed of the claims companies has led us to the point where people would consider suing their own grandmother if there was a chance of 'winning' a few quid. PPI claims are another example of where things have gone from seeking genuine redress into commercial greed.Jerome_TFB wrote: »Of course mistakes happen. But good landlords would be forgiven. I am pursuing it because that woman is an evil [insert whatever you feel like], never fixed anything and made our life hell for a solid 3 months. When we did nothing wrong, just gave our notice.
Again, in my case I would never drag a good landlord in the court for this if they were good to me.
Not a landlord, never will be. My involvement in the rental market is limited to helping friends find somewhere to live when agents and landlords turn them down because they are (incorrectly) seen as a risk based on landlord and agent's previous experiences.Jerome_TFB wrote: »Maybe you are a LL, I do not know. I am a tenant, and I think that the law can be tough on LL, especially if they are trying to evict a blatant offending tenant.
Based on those experiences, I don't see claims companies becoming involved in deposit protection cases being a positive development. But am happy to accept we are not going to agree about this.
Funny, some people would say exactly the same thing (and worse) about people who drive at 40 in a 30 zone. :think:Jerome_TFB wrote: »But I have zero pity for horrible people who do not follow the rules."In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"0 -
The judge does not have the discretion to set the penalty at £1. The law clearly states that the penalty must be 1-3 times the value of the deposit.
Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I understood a judge always has the discretion to impose a lower penalty if they believe the circumstances merit it - but at risk of their decision being overturned on appeal.
Clearly a decision to impose a penalty lower than that specified in law is at considerable risk of being overturned on appeal, unless of course the higher court can see the reasoning of the lower court was justified.... whether or not a case like that comes up remains to be seen.
There is of course also the potential for the minimum penalty level becoming discredited and overturned by primary legislation."In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"0 -
That's the way society evolves sadly. People don't say hello to their neighbours and people sue other people instead of trying to sort it out between adults. It is not a UK thing. It is a worldwide thing (it's the same in France).That's the issue though. You would forgive a good landlord, but for every one of you there are a hundred people who would do anything they can to scrape back a few pounds of rent. In just the same way there was a time people wouldn't sue another car driver if they'd made a genuine mistake, but now the greed of the claims companies has led us to the point where people would consider suing their own grandmother if there was a chance of 'winning' a few quid. PPI claims are another example of where things have gone from seeking genuine redress into commercial greed.
I still think that the law is the law. And in the case of the PPI, banks were only too happy to mis-sell insurance, so tough. And yes company saw a business opportunity, should they be blamed for this?
I do not see it as a negative development either. If anything, deposit will be protected right away, and info will be sent.Based on those experiences, I don't see claims companies becoming involved in deposit protection cases being a positive development. But am happy to accept we are not going to agree about this.
Fair enough! I made a mistake, but I was wrong... So I respect if people say anything. I am not gonna prove them wrong...Funny, some people would say exactly the same thing (and worse) about people who drive at 40 in a 30 zone. :think:0 -
Yes, please, that is whichever way it goes of course.Again time will tell. I will let you know the outcome.0 -
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