Euro Car Parks LTD rubbish signage

DTDfanBoy

Hi there, I received a PCN from Euro Car Parks Ltd allegedly for breaching their T&C's.

The site was controlled via ANPR, the NTK was deficient and also arrived a couple of days late.


They claim that

" As no valid pay and display/permit was purchased this was in breach of the terms and conditions as set out on signage at this site, therefore the Parking Change is now payable to Euro Car Parks as the Creditor "

However T&C's displayed on the site are worded somewhat differently



A valid ticket had been displayed clearly behind the windscreen, the three hours maximum was not exceeded, nor did the vehicle return in one hour , the vehicle was parked within the bay markings and wasn't parked in a disabled parking bay.

I appealed to ECP, being sure not to name the driver, stating all the above and requesting they cancel the erroneously issued PCN, they have refused and instead issued me with a POPLA code.

Along with the appeal refusal they have included images of my car entering and exiting the car park, the time stamps on those images make it abundantly clear that the three hour time limit was not exceeded. They have also included a photo of the T&C's displayed in the car park, which also confirm that no conditions were breached.

They claim in the appeal refusal letter that ANPR is used to 'operate' the car park in question and have provided no evidence of a breach of their T&C's.


Reading the BPA AOS Code of Practice I noted the following

20.5a When issuing a parking charge notice you may use
photographs as evidence that a vehicle was parked in an
unauthorised way. The photographs must refer to and
confirm the incident which you claim was unauthorised. A
date and time stamp should be included on the photograph.
All photographs used for evidence should be clear and
legible and must not be retouched or digitally altered.

20.5b In deciding whether a payment ticket has been visibly
displayed on a vehicle you must do a thorough visual
check of the dashboard and windows.

Am I correct in thinking that their signage, especially when read in conjunction with the BPA COP, is simply not fit for purpose. The only breach their ANPR setup seems to be capable of evidencing is an overstay exceeding Three hours, or a possibly a return in One hour , as far as I can make out all other breaches would need to be evidenced by people actually onsite.

I think I'll base my POPLA appeal focusing only on the above points, thankfully I've retrieved the ticket in question from my ashtray so in the unlikely event I lose my POPLA appeal and ECP attempt legal action they'll be on a hiding to nothing.

I'm keen to know if the Gurus on here are able to offer any advice on how POPLA would view such an appeal, any tips relating to appeals based on parking companies breaching the AOS COP 20.5b will be kindly received

Coupon-mad

Did you get a postal 'PCN' followed a month later by a postal 'Notice to Keeper'?

There is a Euro Car Parks POPLA appeal example written only last week, in pepipoo forum:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60

Take a look, it was a long and strong example which usually makes ECP concede. It also mentioned the lack of photos showing the car with number-plate at a particular identifiable location. All already written for you. Base yours on a recent ECP POPLA appeal and show us.

DTDfanBoy

A postal PCN was received, the appeal was lodged just before the 28 day deadline, a NTK, which was actually a lot less compliant regarding POFA than the initial PCN, was received a couple of days after lodging the appeal, the NTK was issued the day after the appeal was acknowledged by ECP, naughty ECP

I realise that ECP are fairly easy to deal with with a strong appeal, but as I have nothing to fear from them I figured it may be beneficial to focus my appeal around their shoddy signage, specifically

" Display a valid ticket clearly within your windscreen "

and how such a term seems, at least to me, to be incompatible with ANPR usage and the AOS COP.

Coupon-mad

I suppose you could have fun writing a POPLA appeal asking for evidence of 'failure to display a valid ticket within your windscreen'.

However, I expect that ECP would point to the contravention being 'failure to purchase' and will show a list of payments, missing your VRN, which would be good enough for them to win at POPLA.

A valid ticket had been displayed clearly behind the windscreen, the three hours maximum was not exceeded, nor did the vehicle return in one hour , the vehicle was parked within the bay markings and wasn't parked in a disabled parking bay.

Sounds like the wrong VRN may have been input, a typo? POPLA cases are not won on that basis, the PPCs win.

Edna_Basher

Your example is pretty typical of ECP’s rubbish signs – i.e. confusion of Pay & Display and ANPR. If you want to include this point in your submission to POPLA, here’s a suggestion based on the wording that we would normally include in an ECP POPLA appeal.

“The Operator has provided no conclusive evidence that the alleged breach took place.

The Operator’s PCN included two close-up photographs of the vehicle’s number plate. It is not possible to tell where these pictures were taken; they do not prove that the vehicle was driven onto land at [name of car park] and they certainly do not prove that the vehicle was parked there.

Even if my vehicle had been parked at this location, the Operator has provided no evidence to support its claim that no valid pay and display / permit was displayed.

Within its standard template rejection letter dated [ ], the Operator states that “when purchasing a pay and display ticket, you must enter the correct vehicle registration number (VRN) and this information is directed to the camera system. I can confirm that no pay and display ticket matching your VRN was purchased at the time of the terms and conditions. The signage is clear, a valid pay and display ticket must be purchased for the full duration of your stay on the car park”.

Within this rejection letter, the Operator has included a picture of the signage that it claims to be in use at this location. The sign lists four contraventions which may result in the issue of a £75 Parking Charge Notice:

• Display a valid ticket or season ticket clearly inside your windscreen
• Park only within marked bays
• Maximum stay 3 hours, no return in one hour
• Disabled bays are for disabled badge holders only

This sign does not specify that failure to enter the VRN details at the Payment Terminal is a breach that would attract a £75 Parking Charge. Therefore, the absence of a particular vehicle’s VRN from the Operator’s payment log provides no conclusive evidence of there being any breach attracting a £75 Parking Charge”.

Although the most capable POPLA assessors should “get” this, the majority of the "POPLA Team" probably won't. I wouldn’t recommend a game of “assessor roulette” so make sure that you include the main standard appeal points as well as this one.

Umkomaas

Sage advice, as usual, EB.