Today's Bear food

p1212

lisyloo wrote: »

Why do you think we all don't live in the cheapest places?

I don't know, when according to you Luton is a nice place and young people should go there.

AnotherJoe

p1212 wrote: »

Sorry, but when prices are falling the troll is not who says prices are falling...

The issue is, even when they are rising the HPC proponents use that as a reason to prove that as prices are even more unaffordable, therefore they will fall even more.
If prices fall that means they will fall more . if they remain stable, then obviously a crash is just round the corner.

There is literally no event or statistic that doesn't prove to a HPC that either we are in crash or one is imminent. And They've been saying this since forever. It's self confirmation bias on steroids.

As someone cogently put it, they made a short call on housing that's gone horribly wrong and won't admit it (there's one here who did, an honourable exception) and now must gather together to sustain the faith.

p1212

AnotherJoe wrote: »

The issue is, even when they are rising the HPC proponents use that as a reason to prove that as prices are even more unaffordable, therefore they will fall even more.
If prices fall that means they will fall more . if they remain stable, then obviously a crash is just round the corner.

There is literally no event or statistic that doesn't prove to a HPC that either we are in crash or one is imminent. And They've been saying this since forever. It's self confirmation bias on steroids.

As someone cogently put it, they made a short call on housing that's gone horribly wrong and won't admit it (there's one here who did, an honourable exception) and now must gather together to sustain the faith.

A battle is lost, but the war is far from over yet.

You miss one important fact, in a free market banks would've gone upside down in 2008 do to their irresponsible lending and braindead people piling up debt they are not able to repay.

(guess what kind of mortgages and prices would you have today if a few banks went under that time...)

Instead of letting it happen we've removed the natural brakes - which would normally eliminate all these entities from the market - and abused free market in a way that anyone entering the market can only win and never lose, regardless of how irresponsible they are.

The result of this is that regardless of the risk taken you will win. If you take more risk, you will win even more and there is no limit. Now that's why london prices were shooting up for a while. Now if there is no risk, I can buy that flat for a million. Or I can buy ten for a million each, so I make 10x the money... Irrational behaviour from both sides, banks and people are actually rewarded.

Now we have a way bigger problem than in 2008, a market at irrational heights + entities which are behaving irrationally. The only reason why it is not collapsing right now is that we have a nice cartel, the government and the central bank spending taxpayer and freshly printed money to keep up the system.

(we needed to spend a few trillion to do this, but that money is better spent propping up stock markets than giving it to NHS or building houses to people, right?)

They have a lot of "tools", the latest is liquidity guarantee, which means if a bank would go down due to failing in business it can "borrow" from BoE instead. I am sure even boomers understand this is a tool to abuse free market.

These guys think they are greater than god and trying to fight natural forces.

We all know how this experiment will end.

lisyloo

p1212 wrote: »

I don't know, when according to you Luton is a nice place and young people should go there.

I have never said Luton was a nice place. You lie.
Yes if young people want to buy a home and want to live within commuting distance from London then they need to compromise and live somewhere undesireable hopefully temporarily. This is what many generations of people have done to improve their prospects.
We know you think boomers walked into mansions from day 1 but it simply isn't true, just as chuck Norris did not sit on his behind either.
This doesn't appear to stop you lying and refusing to listen to people who have done much better than you.

Please show the post where I said Luton was a nice place (clue - you won't find one).

What are you trying to acheive here?
It's not clear, but if you are trying to win a battle of hearts and minds you won't do it lying.

So show the post please where I said Luton was a nice place.

lisyloo

mwpt wrote: »

I don't think this sort of ad hominem is helpful or called for. This p1212 may feel differently about the economics of house prices, but why does that lead to insults and name calling (crash troll)?

I don't see name calling or insults. I see an honest statement of mine (and others) perceptions of this poster.

What name did I call them? Clue : I didn't.

ukcarper

p1212 wrote: »

A battle is lost, but the war is far from over yet.

You miss one important fact, in a free market banks would've gone upside down in 2008 do to their irresponsible lending and braindead people piling up debt they are not able to repay.

(guess what kind of mortgages and prices would you have today if a few banks went under that time...)

Instead of letting it happen we've removed the natural brakes - which would normally eliminate all these entities from the market - and abused free market in a way that anyone entering the market can only win and never lose, regardless of how irresponsible they are.

The result of this is that regardless of the risk taken you will win. If you take more risk, you will win even more and there is no limit. Now that's why london prices were shooting up for a while. Now if there is no risk, I can buy that flat for a million. Or I can buy ten for a million each, so I make 10x the money... Irrational behaviour from both sides, banks and people are actually rewarded.

Now we have a way bigger problem than in 2008, a market at irrational heights + entities which are behaving irrationally. The only reason why it is not collapsing right now is that we have a nice cartel, the government and the central bank spending taxpayer and freshly printed money to keep up the system.

(we needed to spend a few trillion to do this, but that money is better spent propping up stock markets than giving it to NHS or building houses to people, right?)

They have a lot of "tools", the latest is liquidity guarantee, which means if a bank would go down due to failing in business it can "borrow" from BoE instead. I am sure even boomers understand this is a tool to abuse free market.

These guys think they are greater than god and trying to fight natural forces.

We all know how this experiment will end.

The banks didn't fail because of UK mortgages.

lisyloo

How many people are unable to repay their loans?
Hardly any.
Why make stuff up?
People on here are quite clever and aren't taken in by your lies.

If you don't agree, put up the figures to back up what you said, but everyone here knows repossessions are at all times lows and there are very few unable to repay their mortgages. In fact many of them are doing much better than you and that appears to be the cause of your resentment and bitterness.

AnotherJoe

p1212 wrote: »

A battle is lost, but the war is far from over yet.

You miss one important fact, in a free market banks would've gone upside down in 2008 do to their irresponsible lending and braindead people piling up debt they are not able to repay.

(guess what kind of mortgages and prices would you have today if a few banks went under that time...)

Instead of letting it happen we've removed the natural brakes - which would normally eliminate all these entities from the market - and abused free market in a way that anyone entering the market can only win and never lose, regardless of how irresponsible they are.

The result of this is that regardless of the risk taken you will win. If you take more risk, you will win even more and there is no limit. Now that's why london prices were shooting up for a while. Now if there is no risk, I can buy that flat for a million. Or I can buy ten for a million each, so I make 10x the money... Irrational behaviour from both sides, banks and people are actually rewarded.

Now we have a way bigger problem than in 2008, a market at irrational heights + entities which are behaving irrationally. The only reason why it is not collapsing right now is that we have a nice cartel, the government and the central bank spending taxpayer and freshly printed money to keep up the system.

(we needed to spend a few trillion to do this, but that money is better spent propping up stock markets than giving it to NHS or building houses to people, right?)

They have a lot of "tools", the latest is liquidity guarantee, which means if a bank would go down due to failing in business it can "borrow" from BoE instead. I am sure even boomers understand this is a tool to abuse free market.

These guys think they are greater than god and trying to fight natural forces.

We all know how this experiment will end.

If you understand this all so well, why didn't you jump in, say in 2009 or 2010 and make a bundle ? You could have made hundreds of thousands of pounds, tax free. Yet despite your deep analytical thinking and understanding, you chose to stand back as the bankers and governments rigged the system so prices would increase, you knew all this, yet in contrast you say prices will go down (in direct opposition to your hypothesis they will go up as its rigged ! )

Bottom line, You think the game is crooked, you think it's rigged in favour of increasing prices, why didn't you take advantage of that?

cells

lisyloo wrote: »

So show the post please where I said Luton was a nice place.

Luton is a nice place, like many towns and cities some parts are nicer (and tend to have the bigger and nicer homes) and other parts are more rough (and tend to have the smaller and cheaper homes/flats)

Its not really all that affordable though with prices up 50% in 3 years, a nice-ish 3-4bed house is probably in the £300-£350k mark which is about 3x the price of many towns in the midlands or north

p1212

AnotherJoe wrote: »

If you understand this all so well, why didn't you jump in, say in 2009 or 2010 and make a bundle ? You could have made hundreds of thousands of pounds, tax free. Yet despite your deep analytical thinking and understanding, you chose to stand back as the bankers and governments rigged the system so prices would increase, you knew all this, yet in contrast you say prices will go down (in direct opposition to your hypothesis they will go up as its rigged ! )

Bottom line, You think the game is crooked, you think it's rigged in favour of increasing prices, why didn't you take advantage of that?

So then can you please explain what is liquidity guarantee and how is that useful? Or exactly what happens with the QE money?

The bonds being bought by central banks QE money (and very soon stocks) are owned by funds, investment banks etc... these institutions hold the wealth of almost everyone on the globe. Pension funds, insurance funds, private wealth etc... Central banks inject money into this system by QE, but this money will NEVER get out of the stock market. Fund managers job is to make money on stock exchanges, they will never take out that money and spend it in real economy.

And the goal was actually never to help real economy, the purpose of these trillions is to keep up the stock market and avoid collapse, which would otherwise happen cause real economy is actually in a very bad state. They don't even try to repair real economy, they just try to maintain the illusion of wealth against market forces with all this money and wait for a miracle in the meantime...

...which will never happen as the generation that should spend and create businesses is repaying their ever increasing mortgages, big student debt, then will try to save money for family, expensive education for their children, for bomad etc... - all of the side effects of high asset prices which we try to maintain for the former generations. They won't spend, they won't open businesses, they sink their money into paying back debt.

So while the young people have way worse life, the gap between stock prices/asset prices and the fundamentals is increasing, illusion of wealth is kept up, question is for how much longer, when MAERSK warns that world trade is falling like a stone, when china cannot stop the stock market collapse etc...

They know it's not working, but they don't want to tighten either or else it would pop. And one thing is for sure, when this one pops, that is not going to be nice.