UKPC Parking ticket help

kmac79

Hi all,


I am a bit confused by all of this so thought best to ask as my case is not as clear cut as others.


I went shopping at 8pm tonight at a local shopping mall, and a whole 5 minutes after we parked UKPC hit us with a ticket.


Issue is, we parked in a disabled bay without a blue badge, one of the people who uses the car has cancer, walking takes it out of them so we (rightly or wrongly) use the bays to aid them and stop them getting too tired.


Now this shopping mall has many disabled bays, I believe a whole 5 were in use at the time of us going in due to the time of night it was, which is hardly a loss to the retailers or landowners, they weren't having to turn anyone away due to us parking there, and I also believe BB are not enforceable in private parking (we NEVER park in disabled bays when we do not have a valid reason to, and this evening we had a reason to)


Should I just suck it up and pay? its £45 for 14 days then rises to £80.


I have checked the UKPC website they have pictures of the car and I wouldn't deny being there in the first place because well, its just stupid.


I have seen a lot about the EA2010, but I am not sure if that would apply, I have read in the EA2010 that you are considered to have a progressive condition from the day you are diagnosed with cancer, the person who has it has never applied for a blue badge as they are hoping to be back to health soon so see no real need of it once treatment is done etc, but right now treatment is hard going so it takes it out of them. So in essence, despite them being eligible for a blue badge, none exists.


If I tell the person that they may have to help fight it out it will cause them anguish, I have had to fight power companies etc on their behalf who sent out debt collectors letters despite being told the person would no longer be paying by direct debit but as and when bills came in by the CAB. My fighting them on their behalf still didn't stop the constant worry and I do not want them to go through that again as they have enough on their plate.


Should I just pay the £45, or should I complain to INTU who run the retail site? If I should complain, are there any letter templates quoting the EA2010 I could follow?


Many thanks in advance.

Redx

the BB is not valid on private land , the EA2010 is

if a passenger in the vehicle qualifies under the EA2010 then the landowner is responsible for allowing them to use the bays and the PPC should follow suit

but they dont , the law is flouted daily and the person with cancer may have a case against the landowner + ppc as they are jointly and severally liable - this would involve a complaint , an LBC and an MCOL from them as the "injured" party who qualifies under the EA2010 as the "protected person"

a strong complaint to the landowner by yourself or the passenger or both of you, without naming the driver , is required to start with, with an insistence that the PCN is cancelled (invoice)

as its a windscreen pcn , the KEEPER (not driver) sends the blue text template around day 25 from now to UKPC and appeals the charge

after that , when they eventually issue a popla code (after asking for drivers details which you ignore) , a popla appeal will be used based on legal arguments from 2016 only that are well documented on the forum

so a 2 pronged attack , but bear in mind their argument is the driver did not follow the contract rules listed on the signage (which is true) - hence the ticket

hope that helps

use the forum search box to look for complaint letters as you might find EA2010 ones, plus the SUCCESSFUL COMPLAINTS sticky thread tells you about many complaints that were successful, with some letters in there

DO NOT ADMIT TO BEING THE DRIVER, so dont do as you said , you dont have to admit to anything, its a civil matter, they have to prove their case is a valid one

kmac79

Hi there,


many thanks for this, I have found an MCOL but I am not sure of an LBC (sorry its late and I have read through so many things about UKPC)


I shall initiate my complaint to INTU who I think are the land owners tomorrow, they run the mall but I guess may not actually be the land owners so if they are not, hopefully they will tell me who is so I can go to them.


I do not wish to launch an MCOL or have to go to POPLA so hopefully it can be culled with just the use of the EA2010 act as no one, especially a large shopping centre which caters well for its disabled patrons wants that banded about.

Redx

acronyms are explained in post #2 of the NEWBIES sticky thread

as far as this bay is concerned , I suppose it all hinges on if the person is covered by the EA2010 or if the landowner or managing agent is compassionate

UKPC are applying the rules that apply across the industry , no badge - no park , rightly or wrongly , because as you say many people do not qualify for a BB, but the EA2010 makes no mention of it as a requirement

I qualify as a long term health sufferer, I do have a BB too, but all these people want to see is a valid BB, there are no official methods to show a person is qualified under the EA2010, even if there should be, plus even people showing a BB get targeted for other rules

its a free for all, d!ck turpin style but a 21st century twist on highway robbery

fisherjim

I a fair world where the PPC was truly managing the car parking arrangements for the good of all you would explain the situation and they would accept your reason and cancel.

That is what the appeal process should be for.

But this is parking land better known as bandit country, where money rules.

UKPC are known scammers and they will just ignore your appeal, say you broke our terms and conditions clearly displayed pay up or appeal to POPLA.

You should follow the advice on here, and start with the site owners.

The_Deep

I have seen a lot about the EA2010, but I am not sure if that would apply,

It does. Here is a copy of a letter which I am sending to the Equalities Commission tomrrow unless Reading Borough Council cancel my PCN today, use as much as you like.


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]FREEPOST
Equality Advisory Support Service
FPN4431 [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]26[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]th[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] August 2016[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Dear Sirs[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Disability Discrimination by Reading Borough Council[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I wish to bring to your notice an incidence of Disability Discrimination by Reading Borough Council in failing to make reasonable adjustments to allow for my protected characteristics under the Equality Act 2010. [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I am seventy six years old and occasionally have severe difficulty walking. I have had a TKR in 2015 and another 2016. and suspect that I may need a hip operation shortly.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]On 13[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]th[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] August 2016 I had an appointment at Royal Berkshire Hospital Diabetes Clinic and parked in a resident’s, bay immediately adjacent to the rear entrance in prince Street. As walking was extremely painful that day, it was a choice of parking there or cancelling the appointment, as there were no other spaces within my walking capability. When I returned from the appointment there was a Penalty Charge notice on my windscreen. A valid Blue Badge and clock were displayed. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I made an informal challenge to RBC on the grounds they should make reasonable adjustment due to my protected characteristics under the Equality Act, but this was rejected with indecent haste.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I realise that BBs are not valid in Residents parking spaces, but on this occasion I had no alternative but to park where I did , or cancel my appointment. Councils may if they wish, allow BB holders to park in residents' parking spaces and I feel that their failure to consider my mitigating circumstances amount to a de facto case of discrimination.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Please investigate this matter and if you agree that Reading Borough Council have discriminated against me, please take whatever action you deem appropriate. My ideal outcome would be an apology from RBC and that they make a donation of £50 - £100 to Arthritis UK.[/FONT]












[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

kmac79

So I appealed to INTU, who kindly forwarded my email to UKPC.


Now I am having to play the DPA breach card with them, I gave no permission for them to forward my email, that was between myself and them as a company, I did not reveal who was the driver, nor did I provide them with my real email address but they have told me to appeal to UKPC!!!


I am not sure what to do now, I am going to run out of time to pay the lower rate but I do not think popla will accept the appeal either and I do not want a cancer sufferer to go to court for a stupid £45 fine.


I am at a loss, other than INTU's customer service being pathetic and actually sending correspondence with them on to the parking company and calling them experts!!!

kmac79

I have just re-read the *sticky* post.


I am in Scotland, apart from INTU forwarding my email of complaint to UKPC, all they got from that is my name as the writer of the email, and a lot of "we" and "we's"


I just read *ignore* the letters etc.


As I am in Scotland, can I do this? if so it would mean the end to the issue instantly.


Any and all help appreciated again.

Umkomaas

As I am in Scotland, can I do this? if so it would mean the end to the issue instantly.

As keeper you are completely bombproof in Scotland, as long as the driver's identification isn't provided to the PPC - and there is no obligation, even in England and Wales where PoFA applies, to do so.

Unfortunately this doesn't mean 'the end to the issue instantly'. They will try various harassment avenues, including NtK reminders, debt crawler letters from one firm, passed on to another firm (same outfit, different name, same address, different desk) to try to part you from your cash. They want your money and will try and try to get it.

Will maybe last around 6 months - all can be safely ignored, but they have 5 years to pursue in Scotland, so even if it goes quiet, don't imagine that they won't come back later in the period.

But as things stand - no keeper liability in Scotland (and NI). Don't correspond with them, don't reveal the driver's identity, keep all paperwork safely, and write the date on the envelope when it is received.

kmac79

Thank you for that.


I am copying in the email that INTU stupidly and without permission sent on to UKPC.


Can you read through it if possible and let me know if I have screwed myself. As I said, I used "we's" and cancer sufferer (but never advised if it was "we" or the cancer patient who was driving)


I am hoping the customer service team sending this on has not screwed me at all.


Good afternoon,


On the evening of the 24th of August 2016 we were at your shopping centre, we arrived just before 8pm, near closing time, as we had someone with us who requires calm and quiet around them just now due to suffering cancer and undergoing the treatment for it.



We chose to park in one of your disabled bays as is our right with someone who falls into the category of disabled and requiring reasonable adjustments to be made under the Equality Act 2010. The person undergoing the treatment tires quickly and does not walk well at the moment so we had to be close to the door. We do not have a blue badge unfortunately, but, a blue badge is not enforceable on private land and your car park is private land.



We were given a ticket by your parking watchdogs.



Now, they expect us to pay £45 within the next week for using the parking area you have put in place for people registered disabled under the EA2010. Their signs demand a blue badge be shown, however as these are unenforceable in your carpark, it is a moot point and could be seen as discrimination against those who require reasonable adjustments to be made to enable them to go about their day to day requirements.



As it was close to 8pm when we arrived, on a Wednesday and actually spent money within the premises at several retailers, INTU actually made money from us being there, no one had to be turned away due to our use of the space for the cancer sufferer, so no loss of revenue for you. So a £45 invoice is quite high, especially when we are actually allowed to use the spaces when with the disabled relative when it is not actually coming to INTU, but rather a company who is well known for being rather underhand when it comes to parking fines.



I have copied some text from a website showing the blue badge issue being unenforceable on private land (i.e. your carpark) and that we are able to use it as we did without fear of a ticket.



"Most car parks provide disabled bays to meet the requirement in the Equality Act 2010 to provide ‘reasonable adjustments’ to those who fit the lawful definition of disability. That means the person has the lawful right to park there if they have a long-term disability and they have the need for a disabled bay (e.g. because it is wider, nearer the shops). For council-owned car parks and public roads, the blue badge scheme is run to enable holders to show that they have certain parking rights. However, the blue badge scheme does not apply on private land.
Often private car parks have signs demanding drivers display a blue badge when using the disabled parking bays, or risk getting a parking ticket. However, just because someone does not hold (or does not display) a blue badge does not mean they are not disabled; the Equality Act does not require the driver to display any sort of badge or permit. Anyone who fits the lawful definition of disability is entitled to make use of the ‘reasonable adjustments’. What they are in effect doing is adding arbitrary rules to the lawful right of someone to use a ‘reasonable adjustment’, and this could be considered a breach of the Equality Act."


We are aware INTU are excellent with their disabled patrons, ensuring they have all the need to access the facilities you provide and more, this is why we shop in the centre. We know that INTU would never knowingly allow discrimination against its disabled patrons.


This is where we appeal to you as customers. Can you please make contact with UKPC and have the invoice number 1238062372001 revoked? We do not wish our relative to have to go through appeals with them, as they are known to reject them and still demand money even when an appeal is won, to then have to go through another appeal with POPLA, or even a court case, as again UKPC are known for sending in debt collectors and taking people to court even though the people were right. This person would be unable to cope with the stress of this.


We look forward to hearing back from you, with the kindest regards,


K MacIntyre

Umkomaas

You've given nothing away there. POPLA isn't available for parking events in Scotland.

If you don't get much sense back from INTU, you can either forget it, safe in the knowledge that UKPC has no case against the keeper (as per my advice in my prior post), or you can go on the attack and report the alleged breach of the DPA to the ICO.