CC claim form athens security help please!

roogoose

Hi all
I have been reading through all the threads on these and was hoping you would be able to offer some advice. I have read the newbies post and as suggested started my own threat to discuss my county court claim form for a parking fine.
Situation:
Overstay of 22 minutes at private car park managed by athens security limited.
PCN attached to windscreen for £100, £60 if paid within 14 days- stupidly thrown away a few weeks after as advised by friends thinking nothing would come of it. (and also thought was unreasonable amount).

Letters ignored, which I know now through reading through everything that I should not have done, but it's in the past and cannot be changed.
I know have a county court claim form demanding a total of £228.45
£153.45 for the fine (no explanation or warning of added £50 and the £3.45 is interest).
£25 court fee
£50 legal representative's cost.
I have acknowledged the claim and am preparing my defence.
All documentation is legit as far as I can tell, signs are easily visible in car park so cannot use this as argument.

I have been using defence arguments seen in various threads on here and peipoo including I did not enter a contract and fine is disproportionate to losses and damage. (which i know is less useful since Beavis case, but still thought it was worth a try) Have tried to compare it to local council fines to suggest excessive even as deterrent.

However whilst doing all this I have been looking back through the documentation and realised on my notice to keeper letter that they have stated the "Period of parking" as 00.00 to 16.22.
Now the period of overstay was 16:00 until 16:22. I still have the pay and display ticket that says I entered the car park at 15:00 and paid until 16:00.
My question is, is this mistake on the NTK enough to form a defence? As I said I don't have the original PCN and i presume this has the right time on it.

And if it is enough, then would I be stupid using all the other "cost is excessive" points, as then I am admitting that I should have to pay a fine at all?

Any and all advice much appreciated.
I look forward to hearing from you.

beamerguy

First things first, get your friends to understand that they are wrong, such ignorance could place them in the same position as you.
Your saving grace is that athens security are trying to claim that you were parked between 00.00 to 16.22

You have a ticket to say you parked 15:00 and paid until 16:00

There is a grace period of 10 mins either side when you entered the car park.
athens security need to prove the time 00.00 to 16.22 and if it's ANPR, they must provide the logs to the court.

Wonder if athens security have got their brains in place on this one, seems not

beamerguy

athens security do not want to be whooped in court, they will be

Redx

you challenge the details in your holding defence , the full defence comes later down the line (I hope you acknowledged it but left the defence box blank ? )

you are definitely not a signage expert, plus I have never seen a sign yet that met the CoP in force , therefore you allege it fails the CoP and they have to prove it complies, its not about what YOU think , but the CoP and any applicable laws like contract law, or judges decisions like at the S.C.

you challenge grace periods, as you only paid for parking and were delayed finding a space and also delayed in departing - they have to explain themselves and prove their case

you allege they have no locus standii , they have to prove that they do

you allege their NTK or windscreen notice fails POFA2012 , they have to prove it complies

ditto with notice periods under POFA2012 , thay have to prove they complied (if they dont have the drivers details)

you allege its nothing like the Beavis case, to stop those arguments occurring

etc , etc , ad infinitum

now read through the HO87 examples in this thread and use whatever you can use

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5505546

page 2 , posts #39 and #40

remember this is a short holding (skeleton) defence , not war and peace, so must fit in the 122 lines or whatever it is, war and peace comes later on a few weeks before the hearing

Umkomaas

beamerguy wrote: »

Athena do not want to be whooped in court, they will be

It ain't Athena.

Umkomaas

Have a look at these three forums where lots of legals/courties hang out. Post a new thread there if you feel the need.

LEGAL BEAGLES
http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?384-Parking-Live-Court-Claims

CONSUMER ACTION GROUP
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?88-Private-Land-Parking-Enforcement

PEPIPOO
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=SF&s=&f=60

Redx

correct , lol

its A.S.S.

beamerguy

Umkomaas wrote: »

It ain't Athena.

ok .. athens security, it's the heat so what is the drift on these monkeys, changing my posts to suit

roogoose

Thank you for your quick replies everyone.
RedX can I just clarify re what I have done:
I responded to the claim online via MCOL, on that form I had to put my intentions, of the options I put "I intend to defend part of this claim". As my original thought was that I would pay a lesser more reasonable amount to settle, i.e. admit i overstayed but would only pay for damage or losses.

1. Now I want to defend all of the claim is it ok to just leave the admission form blank?
2. On the MCOL website there is a box to fill in my defence, is this what you mean as the "holding defence"?
And are you suggesting I don't go all out on legislation at this point but simply challenge their authority and ask them to prove it?

Sorry for all the questions, i'm completely new to all this!

Umkomaas

beamerguy wrote: »

ok .. athens security, it's the heat so what is the drift on these monkeys, changing my posts to suit

https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203617011-Athens-Security-Services-Ltd

http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Athens_Security_Services.html

it's the heat

Sweating like a glass-blower's 4rse is no excuse. Southern softies! :rotfl:

Redx

roogoose wrote: »

Thank you for your quick replies everyone.
RedX can I just clarify re what I have done:
I responded to the claim online via MCOL, on that form I had to put my intentions, of the options I put "I intend to defend part of this claim". As my original thought was that I would pay a lesser more reasonable amount to settle, i.e. admit i overstayed but would only pay for damage or losses.

1. Now I want to defend all of the claim is it ok to just leave the admission form blank?
2. On the MCOL website there is a box to fill in my defence, is this what you mean as the "holding defence"?
And are you suggesting I don't go all out on legislation at this point but simply challenge their authority and ask them to prove it?

Sorry for all the questions, i'm completely new to all this!

I have never done the process, so you should have followed the advice given in the bargepole link in post #1 of the newbies sticky thread

you acknowledge online , this gives you a login code and 14 extra days to defend it

so you leave the defence box blank (online) , until you put in your holding defence in a week or two , which I think has to be 122 lines or less

no idea about admissions boxes or admissions forms

a holding defence contains the bullet points you are telling the judge you are relying on and will expand later down the track, also known as a "skeleton defence" , bare bones , you flesh it out later

yes they as claimant have to prove their claim , later in their full claim to the court

you are denying that you have any claim or debt to answer, so you are naming what your defence will rely on nearer the court date to refute their claim

ie:- as defendant you will be defending yourself

remember, if this was criminal court , the prosecution has to prove their case beyond reasonable doubt , all the defendant has to do is plead "not guilty your honour"

ie:- "put up or shut up, but I wont help you to hang me out to dry"

the legal dilemma is , if you dont refute an allegation, its taken as being correct, so you anticipate what you will be relying on later down the track, and write it as a holding defence , because you cannot introduce something new later on

ps:- we are all "new to this"

if you knew how to handle a small claim , you wouldnt be here , but this is MSE and this is the parking forum , it is NOT "legal beagles" , so is NOT a court case forum

its also why parking prankster wrote his "court guide" booklet , to help the unitiated newbies, and those of us interested in knowing about these matters