Estate agents taking me to court?

Guest101

googler wrote: »

How do reach the 'zero risk' conclusion?

Well if all the costs are covered by the cancellation agreement, which £300 would cover quite handsomely, then the agent runs no risk of 'losing out' by simply keeping the property on the books

Okrib

12 month contract? That's insane.


Always check the terms of a contract. Ask yourself why an agent is so keen to lock you in to a long term contract?


The company I work for is very well known. We don't tie clients into a minimum term contract. All we require is two weeks' notice to disinstruct us.

DoaM

mrginge wrote: »

could you provide some kind of evidence to back up this frankly ridiculous claim.

Perhaps EA contracts have different guidelines, but the general premise in consumer contracts is ... just because something is mentioned in the contract T&Cs doesn't make it absolutely enforceable. Otherwise, why would there have been the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations? (Now superseded and absorbed into the Consumer Rights Act 2015, I believe).

Ultimately it would be for a judge to decide.

mrginge

Guest101 wrote: »

Well if all the costs are covered by the cancellation agreement, which £300 would cover quite handsomely, then the agent runs no risk of 'losing out' by simply keeping the property on the books

A quick google shows £885 per month to list on rightmove, around £300 per month for zoopla. God knows for local advertising but let's guess at another £300 per month.
Let's assume you want a salary but you can happily get by on 10k.
Let's take a estimate of heat, light, power and other utilities of £500 per month.

Insurance, business rates, cleaning, stationary, security, office equipment, web costs, photography, vehicle expenses, NI, holiday cover...

Finger in the air... I reckon you need at least 25 withdrawals per month to cover that.

..oh and you might have to take vat off your £300 as well just to make it a bit tougher.

So you can sit around on your backside and try churn over 25 withdrawals every month, or you can just try and sell 5 (even assuming a low net commission of £1,500 per sale) to get the same income.

mrginge

DoaM wrote: »

Perhaps EA contracts have different guidelines, but the general premise in consumer contracts is ... just because something is mentioned in the contract T&Cs doesn't make it absolutely enforceable. Otherwise, why would there have been the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations? (Now superseded and absorbed into the Consumer Rights Act 2015, I believe).

Ultimately it would be for a judge to decide.

Yes you are absolutely correct. What is your point?
Can you provide any evidence that a withdrawal fee is unfair?
Can you explain why it is unfair if payable on termination, but not unfair if payable on commencement?

Guest101

mrginge wrote: »

A quick google shows £885 per month to list on rightmove - Per branch though, not per property, so that is a business expense like any other. Not linked directly to an individual property. , around £300 per month for zoopla. God knows for local advertising but let's guess at another £300 per month. I think that local advertising, for example in a local paper would be significantly more overall, but indivudal properties would be a fraction of that
Let's assume you want a salary but you can happily get by on 10k. - Sure, I'd estimate most agents to be earning close to double that
Let's take a estimate of heat, light, power and other utilities of £500 per month. - Business rates alone would be more than that, but lets assume that's correct for what you've mentioned

Insurance, business rates, cleaning, stationary, security, office equipment, web costs, photography, vehicle expenses, NI, holiday cover... - All of those are business expenses though, to be absorbed by the overall, not by individuals

Finger in the air... I reckon you need at least 25 withdrawals per month to cover that.

Granted, but my point is that such terms guarantee that business costs are paid by individuals when the expense is in itself is a core business need

somethingcorporate

If the agent is confident of selling it they will tie you in for a very short term. Ours was so bullish they said they would sell it in a month, we had them put it in the contract. Took them a week.

You should run a mile at such a rediculous long term contract for selling a house!

DoaM

mrginge wrote: »

Yes you are absolutely correct. What is your point?
Can you provide any evidence that a withdrawal fee is unfair?
Can you explain why it is unfair if payable on termination, but not unfair if payable on commencement?

My point was that the statement by pinkshoes was not, as you put it, "frankly ridiculous". I have no intention of leading you by the hand ... if you want to look I'm sure you'll find plenty of court cases where specific terms have been struck out of T&Cs as unfair (leaving the remaining T&Cs in force).

mrginge

Guest101 wrote: »

Granted, but my point is that such terms guarantee that business costs are paid by individuals when the expense is in itself is a core business need

Well i kind of understand what you're trying to say, after all I said it a few posts back lol.
The detail of what those specific costs are isn't that relevant, just that you're generating some income. The fact that some of your costs are above the line and some are below don't really matter. For example, If you're a high gross margin business but with massive overheads then it doesn't make sense to charge a low withdrawal fee that only reflects direct cost.

Guest101

mrginge wrote: »

Well i kind of understand what you're trying to say, after all I said it a few posts back lol.
The detail of what those specific costs are isn't that relevant, just that you're generating some income. The fact that some of your costs are above the line and some are below don't really matter. For example, If you're a high gross margin business but with massive overheads then it doesn't make sense to charge a low withdrawal fee that only reflects direct cost.

Apologies if I missed it or misunderstood what you wrote.


I think there's merit to both points and I'm unsure what a court would decide. I suspect the length of the contract would play a part in any decision.