Help with what stage and lease wording please!

Brundlecat

Hello experts!

I am hoping to get a little help with 4 PCNs I want to fight!

Just to as briefly as possible give you background info these PCNs, they were issued to another driver in the space that I and my sister own as part of my leasehold on my property (driver had my permission to park there)
On receipt of the first two (a week apart) my sister contacted our management company and it transpired they had instructed a management company for the car park but we had not received the notification of this. We have had ongoing issues with post to the flat so I had asked that duplicate copies of letters be sent to my address in London but had not updated this when moving in February. However, on this call the management company were very helpful and told my sister it wasn't an issue to cancel these and would send a permit on receipt of some required info which she duly sent over as requested via their online portal (All of this would have been better in traceable emails but I was not involved at this stage as I don't live at the property so didn't know it was going on)

Another two tickets followed. This where I became involved and I then EMAILED the management company to ask why we were still being ticketed when they were aware we were awaiting our permit. Their response was that they has not received the info requested. This isn't true as we had received the permit shortly after the fourth ticket so someone must have logged it. They also said on email that they didn't understand why more tickets had been issued after the call with my sister. I replied saying info had been sent we weren't happy about the escalating situation and didn't feel we should pay to use our own parking space. I asked for our property manager to investigate the new tickets further. I received no further response and he will not return my calls. We have now received 4 NTKs and one debt recovery letter relating to the first issued NTK. It is clear to me that I am not going to get any support from my management company on this issue so have contacted the parking company Ccing the management company but received a reply that I need to be the driver (I understand this to be a lie?) Sorry for the length, just wanted to provide context as I realise that to this point it hasn't been best handled and rather wish I had been involved from the outset. This brings the situation up to date.

The questions I have are below:

Although I am the owner of the space the parking company are refusing to deal with me as I am not the keeper. They want an LOA to deal with me so I plan to just get the registered keeper to contact them instead and support her with the wording. Is this right do you think?

I have no proof of the initial call in early June or the sending of the info through the portal in June by my sister so the only contact I have proof of is the emails after all the PCNs were issued but before the NTKs were received. Does this mean I don't have a leg to stand on when appealing?I am particularly referring to the two tickets issued after my sister's contact with the management in early June.

I have checked my Lease of Part and it confirms my right to exclusively use this space. However it does under stipulations and restrictions have the following line: 'PROVIDED ALWAYS that the manager shall be permitted to create reasonable additional regulations in the interests of good estate management by notice in writing to the tenants of the Units and to the tenant.'
Does this mean I haven't a chance in hell of appealing? Even though I reached out to the management and do own the space? The car now has a permit in it and has since we received it.

Thanks for any help. I want to ask the keeper to write today if possible so any other info or help would be hugely appreciated.

Thank you!

beamerguy

Brundlecat wrote: »

Although I am the owner of the space the parking company are refusing to deal with me as I am not the keeper. They want an LOA to deal with me, I assume they can do this so I plan to just get the registered keeper to contact them instead and support her with the wording. Is this right do you think?

I have no proof of the initial call in early June or the sending of the info through the portal in June by my sister so the only contact I have proof of is the emails after all the PCNs were issued. Does this mean I don't have a leg to stand on when appealing?I am particularly referring to the two tickets issued after my sister's contact with the management in early June.

I have checked my Lease of Part and it confirms my right to exclusively use this space. However it does under stipulations and restrictions have the following line: 'PROVIDED ALWAYS that the manager shall be permitted to create reasonable additional regulations in the interests of good estate management by notice in writing to the tenants of the Units and to the tenant.'
Does this mean I haven't a chance in hell of appealing? Even though I reached out to the management and do own the space? The car now has a permit in it and has since we received it.

Thanks for any help. I want to ask the keeper to write today if possible so any other info or help would be hugely appreciated.

Thank you!

YES .... the registered person should continue with this but you can word it.

You say that the management company did not notify you, did they notify all other residents?

The management company states
"'PROVIDED ALWAYS that the manager shall be permitted to create reasonable additional regulations in the interests of good estate management by notice in writing to the tenants of the Units and to the tenant.'"

Employing one of these cowboys is NOT reasonable or in the interests of the Estate.

You need to seriously involve the management company about this and explain that should this go to court, you will have no option to include them in court.

There has to be a big query regarding the manager as many parking companies offer a commission on successful claims ???

Brundlecat

Thanks Beamerguy!

I assume the management company notified everyone, short of asking other residents I don't really know. They probably did send a letter to my old address but I assume they would need to prove they posted it?

I agree that this isn't in the best interests, The keeper has displayed it though, just to stop the tickets more than anything! It's certainly not been in the best interest of me as a resident, it's been nothing but stressful! However that wording is from my lease not the management company.

My plan now is to get the keeper to send the BPA letter and if it is rejected both request a POPLA and write to the Landowner with who I have the lease complaining about the management company and situation. My worry is that due to that line of wording they will just tell me I have to pay?

Brundlecat

I have now received further info that 2 other residents have been ticketed and have had theirs successfully cancelled.

The email from the parking company stated:

For the avoidance of doubt, we would confirm that at this stage (day 1-28 since PCN issue) we are only able to accept representation against the outstanding matter from the individual liable (driver).

However the letter was sent to the Keeper and I was under the impression that that I should refrain from revealing the driver? I am now a bit confused by it all!

Can anyone please help with the letter I am sending to the Parking Company? I would also like to know if I can challenge all 4 PCNs at once? Only the first is past 28 days but I if I have read the forum correctly that doesn't matter?! Any feedback on my attempt below gratefully received. The keeper is not myself or my sister who own the space but she did park there with our express permission.

Dear Sir/Madam

Re: PCN Notices

I am writing to you to challenge these 'PCNs' referred to above as keeper of the car parked in the space AV at Spring Court. Please be aware that the leaseholders will be escalating a further complaint to the landowner about the matter if these are not cancelled with immediate effect.

I understand that you do not own the car park and that Ms XX and Ms XX, the leaseholders of car parking space AV where this vehicle has been parked have been in touch with the management company since 8th June 2016 with regards to unfair issue of tickets against vehicle registration XXXX XX and the cancellation of all charges. Having had little response from the management despite repeated attempts to contact the property manager by phone Ms XX has now also written separately to you providing copies of the lease plan and proof of space ownership.

I understand that this challenge against PCN X falls outside of your stated 28 days, however changes in EU law last year say that appeals should be allowed (Alternative Dispute Resolution) for up to a year and I would therefore like this to be considered alongside the other three PCNs.

“It is the will of Parliament, as a result of the EU Consumer Rights Directive, that ADRs must imminently be made available for not less than a year”

For your information, this morning I have received contact from UCS in regards to PCN X. Please be advised that if they continue to harass me they will be told to refer the matter back to you and not to contact me again.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

XXXXXXX

DoaM

Brundlecat wrote: »

The email from the parking company stated:

For the avoidance of doubt, we would confirm that at this stage (day 1-28 since PCN issue) we are only able to accept representation against the outstanding matter from the individual liable (driver).

Of course they'll say that! They want you to give away a key appeal point that will make their case much more difficult to prove. Just because they say it doesn't mean it is true.

Brundlecat

Ok thank you, then I'll add in a line about not being an admission to driving and send the above off. Thanks for your help!

Brundlecat

Is anybody able to tell me if I can lodge an appeal against more than one PCN at a time or if I have to send a separate appeal for each? TIA for any help!

Umkomaas

Each needs to be handled, managed and appealed separately, although you can use the same initial appeal (see newbies FAQ sticky for the template) for each.

Subsequent POPLA appeals will need to be handled and managed similarly, but, depending on the circumstances of each parking event, they may have to be tweaked to suit, although the main issues will be the same for each. There are no POPLA templates, but plenty of examples to crib from all over the forum. Look at recent (say from April 2016) ones only - much has changed since the turn of this year.

I've skimmed back over the thread, but can't see any mention of which PPC you are dealing with. Can you confirm who they are please, as if not a BPA AOS member, then POPLA won't apply.

Brundlecat

Thanks Umkomaas, that is really helpful. According to the NTK it's is Regent Parking and the postal address for them states the name PCN parking solutions. I hadve to admit that I just assumed they were BPA since they had managed to get the keepers name and details, presumably frome the DVLA but having checked the BPA site I can't see them.... the letter gives a link to challenge validity or for details of their accredited trade association but I can't get it to work and from their home page I have to enter car details which I don't want to do. The letter also says that appeal from the keeper will only be accepted in 'exceptional circumstances' but I assume that is just scare tactics to try to get me to reveal the driver so they have a liable party?

Umkomaas

This is really SolutionLabs (T/A Regent Parking), members of the IPC, so no POPLA I'm afraid.

http://www.theipc.info/aos-members/r

https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203629961-SolutionLabs-Ltd

http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Solution_Labs.html

So you use the IPC initial appeal from the newbies FAQ sticky, each one separately, but all will be rejected - you're just showing that you are following due process, not ignoring things.

Whether to appeal to the IPC IAS (where you will have a less than 20% chance of success) after rejections is up to you, but most regulars now suggest you don't. You will be handing the PPC a win (or wins in your case) with which to brandish before a court.

The more PCNs you have the chances of a court appearance increases, but this outfit have sued no one to date, so hard to forecast the future here.

Can you scan a copy of their correspondence with you - suitably redacted of any identifying information and post here so we can check exactly what it is they are saying.

Do you have photos of the signage on site, if so please scan and copy here too, if not, get some photos ASAP.

Host your scans/photos on a free hosting site like Photobucket or Tinypic, copy the URLs and post the links here, changing http to hxxp and we'll do the conversions (newbies don't have direct posting privileges until they have around 20 posts under their belts.

Brundlecat

I have checked the initial windscreen ticket and that also says PCN Parking Solutions.The Notice to Keeper very clearly states PARKING CHARGE NOTICE TO REGISTERED KEEPER From Regent Parking (PTL) (The Creditor)